'Extend smoking ban to beer gardens', says report


Smoke-free areas should be extended to beer gardens and other outside areas to help combat “social smoking”, according to researchers in New Zealand.

20 replies - Last reply by Fredrik Eich, 24/02/2012 16:59:22

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Replies

The thin end of the wedge

I was very taken aback that the smoking ban went through in 2007, I just thought we were too sensible. I was entirely wrong.

On the 20th to 24th of March is the "15th World Conference on Tobacco or Health." On the agenda is "Endgame ideas: Dangerously radical, visionary leadership or both?" Which is the criminalisation of tobacco. The tenets will no doubt be adopted by the World Health Organization and the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control. This means as the UK is a signatory will be legally obilged under international treaty to implement it ourselves. This may not happen for 10 or 15 years but in the meantime the pressure on smokers will rachet up.

As discussed here outside bans, not only in pubs, parks the street. Parents will be banned from smoking in their own homes where children are present. Slice by slice smokers will be marginalised and made to feel even more unwelcome, including going to pubs.

Can I remind you according to the BII pre ban 54% of pub customers were smokers and post ban still make up 38% of clientele but 49% of a pub's turnover.

The outlook without a sustained fight looks even bleaker for the pub trade.


http://www.wctoh2012.org/nav-confprogramme.html

The thin end of the wedge

I was very taken aback that the smoking ban went through in 2007, I just thought we were too sensible. I was entirely wrong.

On the 20th to 24th of March is the "15th World Conference on Tobacco or Health." On the agenda is "Endgame ideas: Dangerously radical, visionary leadership or both?" Which is the criminalisation of tobacco. The tenets will no doubt be adopted by the World Health Organization and the Framework Convention on Tobacco Control. This means as the UK is a signatory will be legally obilged under international treaty to implement it ourselves. This may not happen for 10 or 15 years but in the meantime the pressure on smokers will rachet up.

As discussed here outside bans, not only in pubs, parks the street. Parents will be banned from smoking in their own homes where children are present. Slice by slice smokers will be marginalised and made to feel even more unwelcome, including going to pubs.

Can I remind you according to the BII pre ban 54% of pub customers were smokers and post ban still make up 38% of clientele but 49% of a pub's turnover.

The outlook without a sustained fight looks even bleaker for the pub trade.


http://www.wctoh2012.org/nav-confprogramme.html

RE: 'Extend smoking ban to beer gardens', says report

"Almost all German states allow exceptions to their smoking bans in bars and restaurants." - (from Bill Gibson's link)

This explains why last year's German beer sales only dropped by 0.1 percent compared to 2010. This was the smallest year-on-year reduction in sales since German reunification in 1990.

Despite the Royal wedding and decent weather beer volumes fell 6% over here with 140-million fewer pints sold. Stacked on top of the plumetting sales of the previous three years since the blanket smoking ban was imposed this is nothing short of a catastrophe.

Even in bankrupt Greece, where wine & ouzo are the drinks of choice and people can't afford a pot to p*ss in, on-trade beer sales have held up better - thanks largely to pub/bar owners completely ignoring their smoking ban with the avid encouragement of Greece's major trade federation.

Same story in cash-strapped Italy which now boasts 360 microbreweries. As a regular visitor for many years I never realised they had a smoking ban until I read it on the 'Net. Nobody appears to have told Italy's bar owners or their happy customers.

If only our own industry could wake up and grow a pair we could follow the lead of our European cousins and maybe put up some semblance of a fight against the prohibitionists then break out of this terminal spiral of descent. Sadly there's no sign of this on the horizon.

Perhaps the meek shall inherit the Earth but only the property developer will inherit the Great British Pub.

RE: BBPA needs to jump on this ban wagon

The help of anti-pub lobby group the BBPA will be needed to get this outdoor ban in place if they are to close yet more pubs.

"At a joint press conference held in Westminster today, leading figures from the hospitality industry and the health lobby shared a platform with Kevin Barron MP, Chairman of the Health Select Committee, to voice their support for a level playing field, with no exemptions, including the nation’s 20,000 clubs."

http://tinyurl.com/8xmyly7

Having joined forces with Kevin Barron MP who claims that booze costs the NHS £55 billion a year:

"We took evidence that the cost to the NHS could be as high as £55 billion a year[sic]. The situation is similar to that with tobacco: in the end, no one really knows the cost of the use of these products."

http://tinyurl.com/6m42uhb

We look forward to the BBPA's new strategy for closing yet more pubs.


RE: BBPA needs to jump on this ban wagon

How many more pubs would have shut if clubs had been exempted?

RE: 'Extend smoking ban to beer gardens', says report

Extend the smoking ban.

Don't you just love these "do gooders"????

Destroying the pub industry, making binge drinking at home easier for smokers buying cheap, nearly Vat less drink from supermarkets, reducing the income of the treasury, and extending the pension bill in the UK, as healthier people live longer.

Yes, harsh words, but fact.

Years ago the smokers of this world, paid duty and vat on cigarettes, now with the ban and the NHS adverts smoking is reduced, but so has the income to the Treasury, pension bill is growing as people live longer, which we are now collecting less taxes on. People who smoke stay at home on cheap booze, drinking more, and not socializing in the community any more.

SOLUTION.

We have freedom of speech, and should have freedom to rights. Allow the pubs to have the say in smoking, Total no smoking policy, an separate area for smokers" the old smoke room back in play" or allow total smoking. If a pub wants to select any of these, they would have to state it on the entrances so allowing the freedom of choice.

If the "do gooders" want a no smoking world, let them pay for it, and increase their taxes to suit, 50% should cover the cost that the government loose each year, and remove the amount lost from the Doctors and NHS trusts to cover the short fall,they spend enough of our money trying to make people stop, but the cost of this out weights the amount saves in treatment and loss to the treasury

In this current economic climate, GET REAL, Europe has already relaxed it's policy on smoking to increase revenue, why have we not

RE: BBPA needs to jump on this ban wagon

"How many more pubs would have shut if clubs had been exempted?"
So instead of robustly rejecting the blanket smoking ban, building a coalition with other interested parties such as clubs, the BBPA's response was to take down clubs, potential allies, as well?

"Britain’s brewers are calling on the Chancellor to freeze beer duty in next week’s Budget to help ease the pressures created by the forthcoming smoking ban and rapidly escalating energy and supply costs."

http://tinyurl.com/722djkt

Astonishing really, considering that putting ash trays on the tables would not cost the treasury a penny,
but having jumped on the ban wagon the BBPA is in no position to ask for special treatment.

What has the BBPA done for pubs recently?

RE: BBPA needs to jump on this ban wagon

F E. YOu will have to read fully the change in stance of the BBPA and the BII in the run up to the commons vote on the issue to see why they changed tack towards the end of the campaign.
As for getting ash trays out. Keeping beer prices unchanged would boost the trade of most pubs more than allowing smoking inside again would.

RE: BBPA needs to jump on this ban wagon

"Keeping beer prices unchanged would boost the trade of most pubs more than allowing smoking inside again would." - David.
I would guess that it may prevent some further damage. Surely, it is better to do two things that will help pubs as opposed to doing only one thing. Putting ashtrays on the tables would cause a boost because
smokers are still over represented as a population sub group of pub users ~1/3 of pub users vs 1/5 of the population. It is reasonable to assume that it would boost pub trade due to the fact that prior to the smoking ban they were ~1/2 of pub users vs 1/5 of the population.
Unless, of course the percentage difference is explained by an increase of non-smokers but if this were the case it's hard to explain why we have lost thousands of pubs since the smoking ban. The most likely explanation is that smokers are going out less. But I doubt that anti-pub organisations such as CAMRA and the BBPA will see it that way as they have both shown by their actions that they are happy to tolerate legislation that has helped decimate the industry.

RE: BBPA needs to jump on this ban wagon

David,
A speculation.

The "more real ale drinkers" hypothosis.

When outdoor smoking bans are legislated for I would suspect that CAMRA will ask a bunch of people if they will go to pubs more if smoking is banned from beer gardens and entrances.
The people they ask will tick yes and then CAMRA will calculate that millions of people will go to pubs more.

Result:

Millions of people will do precisely the opposite to what CAMRAs data suggested.

The "level playing field" hypothosis.

When outdoor smoking bans are legislated for I would suspect that the BBPA will be happy for pubs to close just so long as other businesses such as clubs close too.

Result:
Pubs and other businesses such as clubs close.


It's just a speculation based on the past form of these two anti-pub organisations.

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