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News Article Comments : Smoke ban starts July 1, 2007
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72 Posts(s) found for this thread: Now displaying page 6 of 8
| Author Name | Opinion | Reply |
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Bill Gibson 12/12/2006 13:31:27 |
RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 This all depends on whether the ETS is irritation or as I have often found that the aroma of pipe tobacco is very pleasant. I remember a few years ago my old friend Larry Hagman carried a portable fan in his pocket should someone cause an issue with ETS he would produce the fan and point it in the direction of the offender.. This legislation was pushed through based on lies that Passive Smoking Kills which as you are aware cannot be proven. Solutions exist to clean the air therefore as has been proven in Holland and other democratic countries that by using modern technology, it is possible for us to co-exist, work and socialose without the need to ban the use of legal products. Japanese Tobacco for instance launched its new ''SMOKERS' STYLE'' initiative, in which it calls for better manners on the part of smokers, while enjoying smoking. As part of this initiative, which aims to promote a society in which both smokers and non-smokers can more easily coexist, JT regularly and aggressively implements various measures including: smoking manner advertisements on TV, newspapers and public transportation; conducting voluntary clean-up campaigns with citizens called ''You will love your town more by cleaning it up''; JT-sponsored installation of smoking stands and consultation for effective approaches to establish designated smoking areas in public spaces such as train stations, airports and other large establishments; and distribution of portable ashtrays. We also engage jointly with other companies in research and development of ventilation and cigarette odour removal systems and the creation of smoking rooms using advanced smoke-separation technologies. JT will continue to seek and offer realizations like SMOKERS' STYLE that would enable smokers and nonsmokers to more comfortably coexist. Choice... This post replies to Ian Smith > RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 |
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| Jon Singleton 12/12/2006 21:27:22 |
RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 Bill, The first line of your last post has highlighted my arguement and I am glad you have bought it up. I quote 'This depends on whether the ETS is irritaton as I have found the aroma of pipe tobacco is very pleasant' Bill I don't care what you think, I think that any form of smoking around me irritates. You are welcome to your opinion but the crux of the debate is that you and others are saying it is wrong that I find smoking irritating and I am in the wrong. You talk about choice, your colleagues have a website called 'thebigdebate' ... It couldn't be further from the truth. Non smokers do not have a choice and further, they could not have a debate as that site would snuff any smell of a debate. I am still looking forward to a decent debate which doesnt include numbers and exclusion. You have seven months to persuade the average Joe. To date nothing impresses. This post replies to Bill Gibson > RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 |
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| Bill Gibson 13/12/2006 00:16:38 |
RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 Jon...as you have repeatedly said I DON'T CARE. Yes I would love to put a huge poster in your venue and local papers proclaiming that Jon Singlton does not care. It would be interesting to see how long you remained in business. To be honest, nobody cares what you think anymore, we have heard it all before on the Publican Site and now here...Do you get the message? This post replies to Jon Singleton > RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 |
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| David Pott 13/12/2006 00:21:07 |
RE: Smoke ban starts July 1, 2007 Jon you DO NOT speak for non-smokers; most of us have no real problem with smoking. It is only a few of you that have a phobia about smoking and community pubs. This post replies to this thread |
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Robert Watson 13/12/2006 03:28:48 |
RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 Mr Ian Smith I am not saying anything about you not helping people. I believe everyone deserves support no matter what you want to acheive. I was just asking people to stop straying from the subject of this debate. I support the service you give being an x smoker myself. I'm just asking for publicans to come forward and debate their possible challenges etc. Jon seems to be offering some good arguments along with others. The fact that people seem blinkered has worried me. Why do some just seem to resent the ban and look for ways around it? See it as a new opportunity. Rise to the challenge! I don't want anyone to go under. I will even offer my help to move on from this stubborn view if it means the public house will live on. Don't let the off trade put you out of business because you have nothing to offer that the public can't have at home at a fraction of the cost. Long live the landlord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This post replies to Ian Smith > RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 |
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| Bill Gibson 13/12/2006 10:08:55 |
RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 In response to Robert...we are anything but blinkered. We have a global network of information which is available to you as well, it is called the Internet. If such legislation was necessary on the grounds of health improvement I would be the first to be seen championing the cause. The truth is that NO improvement in health will be achieved as a direct result of this legislation, a proven fact from data available from countries who have had such bans in place for several years. As recent as yesterday http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=5648ea1a-e4e8-4411-a997-9b208a44df05&k=59198 or http://www.kirotv.com/investigations/9691562/detail.html this is already happening in Scotland just over six months into the ban http://www.theherald.co.uk/business/71195.html Now bringing the topic back to bars http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/3743196.html or http://subs.nzherald.co.nz/topic/story.cfm?c_id=321&objectid=10388841 This is all factual and does not represent information gained by people with a blinkered approach as you put it but the fight is being taken forward by many who have invested personal money into a business in the hope of building a pension fund to see the 'goalposts' being forcably moved by HMG with the high probablility of ruining their personal future. This post replies to Robert Watson > RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 |
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| Bill Gibson 13/12/2006 10:22:50 |
RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 Solutions exist that will overcome the perceived issue of Passive Smoking. The traditional pub environment in Britain is reveered by our European neighbours for the warmth and hospitality offered. Do not turn it into a sterile atmosphere (there are just as many potenially dangerous carcinogens given off from an open log fire) with empty bars, fight for your rights to choose what is right for your business. If Jon Singleton and others want a smoke-free venue...we all say great go ahead we will applaude such ventures ( He already knows this from his postings over the past 2 years on the Publican - so don't be fooled) but do not force that on the rest of the nation. A market mix of venues would protect our social and economic fabric for many years to come. This post replies to Bill Gibson > RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 |
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| Jon Singleton 14/12/2006 00:10:01 |
RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 The way to have stopped this natural progression would have been for everyone to recognise everyone's position. I truly believe that no one wants any business to go under. That is an arguement against the ban as some pub owners believe the ban will unduly affect them. The arguements for the ban include health and personal discomfort. These can not be argued against as they are personal opinions and will always be so. Those who feel that smoking affects their health haven't had opinions or facts and figures forced upon them so the same wont make them change their mind. The real error of the pro smoking lobby has been their naivity, thinking that it won't happen and that they can put up smoking allowed throughout signs and can taunt everyone else with freedom of choice lobbies. Yes we have had debates and arguements on such forums but I am still amazed that no one has had the honesty to recognise why people are offended by smoke. If that acceptance had been there from day one there could have been a way out and a solution. I have always been prepared to have a debate but as long as people say I am wrong to have an opnion and that smoking doesn't affect my health then I will continue to support a total ban on smoking. This post replies to Bill Gibson > RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 |
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| Bill Gibson 14/12/2006 07:47:02 |
RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 Jon...remember one thing, we are not pro-smoking but advocate choice for everyone businesses and patrons. This unwanted legislation provides for neither. The only person/s to taunt anyone has been Albert Crumb, Keith Longridge and yourself there has never in the past 3 years been any hint of taunt from those of us in favour of choice. This post replies to Jon Singleton > RE: Smoke ban to start July 1, 2007 |
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| Bill Gibson 15/12/2006 16:51:02 |
RE: Smoke ban starts July 1, 2007 Ian...as you seem to have answers, how do you effect change in a traditional market that people are already happy with, a market that in many ways is unique to England, not found anywhere else in the world. You say that the industry should adapt...adapt to what? It has been proven in Ireland, Scotland, Norway and many parts of the USA that the wet led venues suffer as a result of the bans. In many locations, overhead costs would more than double if one was to attempt to introduce food. Lap dancing is now banned in Scotland, promotional Happy Hours are banned in Scotland...so get off the fence Ian and tell everyone where this utopia market is and how it is achieved, we are all eager to learn where the trade is going wrong.
By the way, during the consultation process in Scotland 76% favoured more restrictions but with choice...look what we got. This post replies to Ian Smith > RE: Smoke ban starts July 1, 2007 |
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