- Morning Advertiser >
- Forums >
- News Article Comments >
- Renegade pubs defy smoking ban
News Article Comments : Renegade pubs defy smoking ban
- Thread is open
- View Article
63 Posts(s) found for this thread: Now displaying page 3 of 7
| Author Name | Opinion | Reply |
|---|---|---|
Iain Page 17/07/2007 20:58:53 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban Nigel, Not sure how much experience you have of LA's. I have worked with them as a management consultant and now as an adversarial pub owner. The issue is not simply one of budget in this case. They generally have an overstretched legal department staffed by lawyers who are often not of the calibre to get jobs in the private sector and, perhaps more significantly, are not used to the workload in the private sector. What this means is that we can swamp them very easily. You may well be correct in suspecting that Herefordshire CC is more than capable of pursuing Tony Blows through the courts with minimal impact on the council tax. You would be wrong to think that they could do the same in the face of one hundred Blows and I would fully expect them to collapse in the face of one thousand. They ain’t got the legal capacity to take any volume of defended cases through even the magistrates court. Once the magistrates are confronted by an HRA defence they have little option to pass it up to a more competent court. There, the LA solicitors generally don’t have right of appearance and so the LA will get hit with a barrister’s bill. And finally, don’t forget that Tony is not necessarily breaking the law, at least not until a court says so. This is not likely to be a mater of a summons, ten minutes in court and a fine… next case. This post replies to Nigel Maud > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
| Albert Crumb 17/07/2007 21:00:48 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban You're quite right of course Nigel. Neither will it be too long before someone tries a civil action against both the licensee and the local authority (failing to carry out it's duty of care to a non-smoker who unwittingly entered these dangerous premises). Could be worth a tidy fortune. Pass Albert a map.....Bolton... it's not that far down the M6. This post replies to Nigel Maud > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
| Iain Page 17/07/2007 21:01:14 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban Hi Adrian, If you want to get in touch directly I have set up a mailbox at smokefreedom@btconnect.com This post replies to ADRIAN STRAATMAN > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
| Iain Page 17/07/2007 21:07:12 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban Albert, your suggestion has echoes of an earlier discussion on the MA forum. Please would you be kind enough to help us by visiting a pub or two in the Easton & St Pauls districts of Bristol. I will not say which ones because I applaud their stand for freedom on their own terms. You should not take too long to find somewhere that is effectively a no-go area for our incompetent LA or its police force (motto - we'll be along as soon as possible). There you would be able to take in a lungful of tobacco and possibly other forms of smoke giving you every right to march to the small claims court (cost £15) and sue Bristol cc for failing to police the prohibition. I will reimburse your fifteen quid if you loose. This post replies to Albert Crumb > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
andy davis 17/07/2007 21:08:10 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban The media have reported on several occassions that the LA will advise, discuss, warn and educate in the new law. Much the same as mobile phones and seat belts, I would suspect. It will not be long before they prosecute and looking at the funding for the LA in Herefordshire, this is not a cost to the council tax payer of Herefordshire but from the DOH and I am sure it is only a short time before it starts. Nigel Im not sure your examples are accurate comparisons. You refer to motoring offences that (a)involve prosecution by the Police, and (b) i dont think there was any perceived legal challenge/threat to the validity of these laws. Also, I think a Government department could do without the publicity and cost that would come with a legal battle,that if they lost would involve the law having to be repealed/amended.
This post replies to Nigel Maud > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
Colin Grainger 17/07/2007 21:22:34 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban Albert clearly does not know that there has never been a successful prosecution for alleged harm caused by SHS. I would remind him of the McTear case in Scotland where the prosecution team could not even find a definitive link between primary smoking and lung cancer. I would remind him that not one single Actuary, anywhere on earth, has ever defined a risk to "innocent bystanders" from SHS. I would remind him that actuaries examine risk to the Nth degree for insurance companies, and if they cannot find a risk, the risk does not exist . The insurance companies are notorious for evaluating, and loading premiums, based purely on risk. They have had eons in which to investigate, evaluate, and load accordingly. That they do not, ought to reassure you that no such risk exists. However, we live in hope that such a prosecution arises so that we can use the evidence we have amassed. Bring it on, bring it on! This post replies to andy davis > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
Alan Thompson 17/07/2007 21:26:37 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban Colin This was settled out of court, but this guy got 50 grand http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3986973.stm Alan This post replies to Colin Grainger > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
| Nigel Maud 17/07/2007 21:28:27 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban Iain - you are right that if there are 100 Tony Blows the courts wil lbecome clogged, but 100 Tony Blows could generate 250K in extra revenue and it will not be long before HMG see this and gives the same powers for non payment of say business rates or the council tax, £2500 soon will become a lot bigger with enforcement and the snowball gets bigger. Most laws of this nature are enforced eventually and it is a false sense of security to think other wise. This post replies to Iain Page > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
| Colin Grainger 17/07/2007 21:37:51 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban Like I said Alan, not one successful prosecution. Besides which, even in the last two years there have been many studies published that debunk the myth that smoking causes asthma. If this guy was to try this action today, the case would be heard and dismissed within hours. We now know that asthma is an allergy. It is caused by (an allergic reaction to) proteins. There are no proteins in second hand smoke. I accept that attacks may be triggered by SHS. But the jury is still out on that one as there are simply too many confounders to nail the smoke on its own. There is a huge amount of data that says some asthmatics think smoke triggers their attacks, but it is, in fact, psychosomatic. He got £50K. Good on him. This post replies to Alan Thompson > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
| Albert Crumb 17/07/2007 21:58:23 |
RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban Oh dear Iain, was your council tax a little high this year, or is it something deeper - a former sweetheart of yours ran off with a town clerk perhaps..? You're out of date with court fees but that's by-the-by. Albert remembers when it was legal to smoke in pubs and thankfully that's all behind us now. Renegades always make the news as laws come in - Albert can remember the advent of seat belts and crash helmets...both pieces of legislation brought out the nutters in our society. "22 stone John Downing from Ilford claims he can't breathe properly while wearing a belt". "Michael Jennings who has a cranial growth showed reporters how difficult it would be for him to wear a helmet" They came........they went. There really is nothing new here. As a philosopher Iain, you may know that Machiavelli would also applaud these freedom fighters, these bravehearts, these men of principle. "Secretly encourage our enemies to perpetuate their claims. We know them to be untrue and later our own pleasure will be enhanced when their much spoken and wide cast falsehoods are finally revealed". 'Essays after The Prince- 1516' .
This post replies to Iain Page > RE: Renegade pubs defy smoking ban |
|
