News Article Comments : Undercover police to monitor pub 'drunks'

RE: Undercover police to monitor pub 'drunks'

Rob Hayward says

"........trying to ensure it follows an appropiate course"

What the heck does that mean?

To my mind the "appropiate course" would be for our beloved leaders to tell them to butt out and go catch some criminals.

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RE: Undercover police to monitor pub 'drunks'

The usual crap from the trade bodies. The reality is a simple one there is no definition of drunk. I spent many years as a police officer. Under legislation I could legally state someone was drunk. That required a series of tests. His pupils were dilated, he was unsteady on his feet, his speech was slurred, he smelt of alcohol. He was drunk. The LA 2003 does not provide any definition or guidance on the issue. For once trade 'representatives' get off your arses and fight for licensees. To some 2 pints is drunk to other 3,4,5,6,7. Unless the police can say what they intend to use as their criteria then this should be stopped by the Home Office. MOre reassuring stuff from TP, what the hell does this contribute. Federation of Licensed Victuallers Association

chief executive Tony Payne stressed that training would be the key to

avoiding fines. “Even a part-timer who works three hours a week

can lose you your licence these days, so proper and constant training

is crucial. Before the Licensing Act, our training manual was 12 pages,

now it is 60 pages.”

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RE: Undercover police to monitor pub 'drunks'

I also served for many years as a police officer and a licensing officer at that. Everyone is right when they say there is no definition of 'drunk' and yes, the police are deemed expert witnesses in a court of law on whether or not a person is drunk. But the offence is to KNOWINGLY serve a person who is drunk, therefore until someone, i.e. a police officer points out to you that the person at your bar is drunk, or that from the persons condition it is obvious that the person is drunk, then I would contend that no offence has been committed.

There are several conditions which would give the appearance of being drunk but are not actually drunk, therefore extreme care has to be exercised by the police as well.

Please also note that a fixed penalty can only be issued at the time by a police officer present and in uniform. Therefore watch out for the Courts being inundated with cases of this nature with potential defences abounding.

In order for the police to enter the premises they have to suspect that an offence is being, is about to be or has been committed, to place officers in plain clothes in premises 'in case' an offence is committed would appear to be without legal authority.

Whereas with test purchasing there is legal authority to try and catch out offenders selling to under age there is no 'test purchasing' for drunks therefore it would appear to be a form of 'entrapment'

Licensees beware - training is essential for all staff. The BIIAB and others have the appropriate courses but from experience I know that take-up is poor. 

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RE: Undercover police to monitor pub 'drunks'

Just kick em out if you find one of these need to get a real job idiots in, why don't people in this trade stand up for there livelihood instead of letting the trade get wiped out

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RE: Undercover police to monitor pub 'drunks'

Dispare , im loosing the will to live ......BUT NO , i aint gonna let the buggers win. Come on "Gordie" lets go to the country in October and you will be posibly the shortest lived PM on record.

This post replies to Robert Feal-Martinez > RE: Undercover police to monitor pub 'drunks'