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News Article Comments : Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint
Enterprise and Punch have told the anti-pubco Fair Pint campaign they will not meet the group before the Parliamentary inquiry into pub companies, the MA can reveal.
In a letter to the campaign group, Enterprise chief executive Ted Tuppen said: "We have recently written to [Liberal Democrat MP] Tim Farron, in his capacity as chair of the launch of the Fair Pint campaign, expressing our deep concern at the irresponsible, prejudiced and ill informed nature of many of his pronouncements about pub companies, some of his comments verging on the defamatory.
"Adopting such a stance does not imply a willingness to make a balanced assessment of the relationship between pubs and pub companies.
"Clearly, I have to ask myself whether a meeting with your Steering Group would add value to the debate and, given the positions seemingly adopted by those who appear to represent your campaign, I regret that I see little point.
"I recognise that these are very difficult times for the licensed trade an
54 Posts(s) found for this thread: Now displaying page 4 of 6
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David Pott 07/08/2008 21:51:44  |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint Dave the problem is what is seen here and the other site. This post replies to Dave Evans > Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint |
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| David Pott 07/08/2008 21:53:03 |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint Dave I have been freetrade and tied. I know what discounts are available. What reaaly matters is the profit at the end of the day after all overheads are taken into account. What many appear to be up against is unrealistic rents. Which gets us back to Business Plans if you ain't got one you will probably go bust. Cheap beer like selling after hours is not the answer. This post replies to Dave Evans > Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint |
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| Nigel Wakefield 07/08/2008 22:38:06 |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint David you are right about the business plan, unfortunately when people buy pubs they produce business plans that I find unbelievable. I had someone ring me this week for advice on buying a Pub Co lease, his existing turnover was £120K rent £32K and various so called professionals had approved his business plan. The place was tired the licensee was tired and they thought they could run it better. My advice was walk away from it, they won't. The corporate bull and that initial ego will make them go ahead. Why do so called professionals help people put business plans together when the odds are against them from the start and Pub Co's approve them into the bargain. This post replies to David Pott > Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint |
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| kevin o'connor 07/08/2008 23:11:27 |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint Dave I accept completely that Mark and the rest of the steering committee of Fair Pint are campaigning in a professional manner but they are being undermined by extremist comments. Ted Tuppen defended his position by saying that using emotive terms such as "Rachmanesque" was defamatory. If memory serves that term was used by a poster on this site. Although not made by Fair Pint it has been siezed on by Enterprise. I have said that extreme comments like this would be used against them. The Pubcos are under attack and will use all means possible to defend their position, so perhaps it is time to stop providing them with ammunition This post replies to Dave Evans > Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint |
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Dave Evans 08/08/2008 02:42:01 |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint Kevin: I have long said that posters should moderate their comments for exactly the reasons you cite. There are people who appear to WANT to undermine the campaign, knowing that this site is monitored by the various pubcos. Dave E. This post replies to kevin o'connor > Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint |
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| Stephen Corbett 08/08/2008 09:10:56 |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint In an efficient market place the tied tenant should pay a little more for his beer and this increased cost should be offset against the amount of rent he pays. The problem is it isn’t an efficient market place and with all controllable costs, including rents, on tied tenants and free of tie tenants balance sheets being comparable then the only difference is the price each tenant pays for their beer. A tied tenant will pay in some cases more than twice as much for their beer so THE TIE IS THE PROBLEM. The supply tie not only forecloses the whole market place it raises competition concerns as well. While pubcos may make a substantial range of products available to tenants, the price charged is not that which is available in the open market, In this way pubcos are able to appear as if they are supporting tenants and independent brewers but in reality, highly restrictive price structures exist within these wide product ranges. The pubcos are in direct competition financially with their tenants because its their interest to push the price of beer up as high as possible to continue to increase their own discounts and ultimate profits each year. Tied tenants have no opportunity for negotiating volume discounts and there is no variations in ‘discount’ from one pubco to another, with no reward for high volume sales as in the free market. This post replies to David Pott > Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint |
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| Stephen Corbett 08/08/2008 09:13:59 |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint Because the tie enforces a restrictive market place and there is no control over the price the pubco charges for their beer, prices are now at an unsustainable level. Tenants GP’s on ‘tied’ products are in most cases well below a business break-even level. Although Government has previously stated that tenants agreements do not foreclose the market, they miss the point that, in financial terms those agreements should ensure the tied tenant is not worse off than if they were free of tie, It is a financial evaluation that is required to ensure that the tied tenant enjoys the position that would enable the tenant to operate in a fair market. The pubcos can never be trusted with the supply tie because they have no real interest in beer. Their only interest is maximising profits each year and this wouldn’t be a problem as long as it wasn’t to the detriment of their tenants. THE TIE HAS TO GO. This post replies to David Pott > Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint |
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| Gilbert Bank 08/08/2008 11:12:02 |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint When I speak to friends in business they just don't get the "tie". One summed it up quite succinctly. If being tied means you are paying more than the market price for a product that is available at a lower price elsewhere, this is price fixing that acts against the interest of the consumer pushing prices up. They all roared with laughter when I told them my cost for a nine of bitter was £82 from the brewer and £60 from a small local wholesaler who has yet to sell a cask to a free house. This post replies to this thread |
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| George Baker 08/08/2008 12:11:16 |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint Gilbert, I think there's a lot of incredulity outside the trade as to just how bad the tie and Pub Co rent levels are. A Punch Taverns pub near me is now on its 8th lessee in 6 years. I understand the rent is £36,000 which (at an acceptable rent:turnover ratio of 12%) would mean the turnover required is £300,000 + VAT. In round figures it needs to take £1,000 a day to produce anything like an acceptable living for the lessee. The truth of course is it doesn't (nor in my opinion, ever has it, or ever will it) do £1,000 a WEEK! Another thing to amuse ourselves with is a friend of mine owns 6 pubs and leases them out free of tie. He makes a more than satisfactory return on his property investment while allowing his lessees to enjoy the same free-of-tie purchasing power as a freeholder. Happy landlord, happy lessees - all making decent profits. And all because greed and the tie are out of the equation. The terrible damage the Pub Co model has wrecked on this industry will cripple the landscape of our social life and hospitality infrastructure for ever. It is a scandal. This post replies to Gilbert Bank > Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint |
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eddie robinson 08/08/2008 13:26:06 |
Enterprise and Punch won't meet Fair Pint I do kind of agree with the calls for moderation in the approach to the pubcos so allow me to put my extremely moderated view. The pubcos are just a bunch of crooks in suits..... The pubcos deliberately and cynically mis-represent their pubs to incoming licencees in the knowledge that when they go bust, another will be along in a minute..... The pubcos commonly refuse to honour their side of the bargain particulary in their landlords duty to repair the properties..... The beer tie is axiomatically responsible for ridiculous prices in the pubs and is why pubs are avoided by all those with less disposable income than they used to have.... The pubcos pull any stroke they can either legal or illegal to leech as much as they can from the licencees with no compunction whatsoever..... The pubcos have no interest in the pub industry save for what they can squeeze out if it.... The pubcos should be shut down without delay, they're bankrupt anyway..... As Ed Carpenter says... BRING THEM DOWN !! SHOW THEM NO MERCY !!! By whatever means are available, ethical or otherwise. edited by: eddie robinson at: 08/08/2008 13:26:17 This post replies to this thread |
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