News Article Comments : Camra: 7,500 pubs will close by 2012

RE: Camra: 7,500 pubs will close by 2012

Regrettably CAMRA has not identified the prime reason why pubs close. It is because of the supply tie. They should support its removal. Today Enterprise has ditched a couple of Carlesburg brands throuh 1500 pubs. OK so lager is not a real ale but this demonstrates how the supply tie operates against the interests of consumers and tenants. Remove the supply tie and a lot more pubs will survive. CAMRA are right that in the current climate we can expect a huge quantity of closures just after Christmas. If only they had supported the removal of the tie back in 2004 less pubs would be closing.

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RE: Camra: 7,500 pubs will close by 2012

John you are of course absolutely right we have the 'perfect storm'. However the most influencial single factor is the Pubco tied model.

The point I think that is being made is that most Pubco tenants have annual inflationary increases AS WELL as 5 yearly rent reviews at a time when trade is down it is madness to take more away in rent. Add to that the cost of products under the tie which incidentally increase at a rate above inflation. A free of tie tenant can acquire beer at, conservatively, £100 per barrel less than a tied tenant.

I have no doubt you will agree tied tenants should be no worse off than free of tie but quite simply they are.

Assuming you sell 100 36gallon barrels and are free of tie, your rent would be about 14-18% of your turnover (depending on when the rent was set). So if your t/o was say £100,000 your rent would be around £16,000 free and £10,000 if you were part tied. Tied tenant better off I hear you say by £6,000. Not so ! Tied tenant has to pay additional cost on those 100 barrels (100 barrels x £100) so actually tied tenant worse off by £4,000.

Think 400-500 barrels - you do the maths.

This post replies to John Ellis > RE: Camra: 7,500 pubs will close by 2012

RE: Camra: 7,500 pubs will close by 2012

CAMRA is currently being very badly led and many, many members are of the view that it has increasingly lost the plot. Apart from anything else it is no longer reflecting the views of the membership and

Instead of cancelling membership I suggest you wait until the next AGM in April and make sure you use your vote. There will be alternatives to the current policies and changes are both possible and urgently required.

This post replies to Forum user 4010 > RE: Camra: 7,500 pubs will close by 2012

Camra: 7,500 pubs will close by 2012

Mark, this is completely right. You can equate the pubs as being the front line in the 1st World War ( and I do not mean to undermine the bravery of people like my grandfather who fought in the trenches and returned to tell the tale) We are attacked from the front, ie local councils with their bullish attitude to anything to do with the smoking ban, and the ever increasing number of snouts in our tills bleeding us dry and then from way behind our lines - the Generals, or Pubco's as we know them, who sit and still play Nero as Rome burns, give us no new armoury to attack with, pontificate if our machine takings are down, ( because they rob us of 50% of the profit but dont fund the electric!) and generally swan about up their own a***s going to countless meetings ( know the feeling every time you ring your pubco or BDM, that taped message 'I am in a meeting........)Simple Answer is we in the tied trade whether with Enterprise, Smelly and Nasty or whoever we must unite through this paper and present a solid front and round on our Generals...it can be done....Remember Maggie and Poll Tax ?

This post replies to J Mark Dodds > Camra: 7,500 pubs will close by 2012