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News Article Comments : Pubcos under cosh on radio show
The pubcos have taken another battering from the Fair Pint group in the wake of the first Business and Enterprise Committee hearing.
Speaking on Radio 4's You and Yours show hosted by ex-Enterprise lessee Peter White, Clive Davenport of The Federation of Small Businesses (FSB) hit out at the pubcos.
"A pub not far from where I live, over the last 8 years, there has been five tenants — which gives an average turnover of 18 months per tenant, which is pretty bad in itself.
"But worst of all is that one of the tenants committed suicide and that's absolutely disgraceful — no other word for it."
When asked if it was because of the pubco, he answered: "The landlords of pubs in the area are firmly of that opinion."
Enterprise lessee Paul Daley, who also runs another free of tie bar in the East End of London, re-iterated his point made to the committee that beer was far too expensive through the pubco.
He said that Carling was 60% more expensive, Grolsch 55% and Budvar 53% at his tied
| Author Name | Opinion | Reply |
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Stephen Corbett 21/11/2008 20:28:31 |
RE: Pubcos under cosh on radio show Punch said that it "encouraged individual licensees to speak directly to them" and "do their best to resolve issues amicably". "Divide et impera" – Divide and rule Keep the minion’s apart so that they can never speak with one voice! I have some news for you Giles…….the tenants have joined up the dots. This post replies to this thread |
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| Inez Ward 22/11/2008 03:31:14 |
RE: Pubcos under cosh on radio show Steve sweetie, I've news for you (or not as the case may be lol) they have more than joined up the dots!!! Pubcos whether you like it or not the tenants have united, you have tried your utmost to divide and it has not worked. Reap and sow, reap and sow. United we stand and divided they fall!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As sure as God made little apples that is the way it will be. There has been an era that is now coming to an end, you know it, I know it and even they know it! edited by: Inez Ward at: 22/11/2008 03:32:57 This post replies to Stephen Corbett > RE: Pubcos under cosh on radio show |
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| J Mark Dodds 22/11/2008 17:14:29 |
Pubcos under cosh on radio show We are at the foothills, there is still a long way to go. I have run my business honestly and squarely and have never made a substantial profit at my pub in thirteen years. If I had been free of tie, as the lease was advertised as coming free in 1998, conservatively I would have made 30K or more profit each year for over a decade. With that profit I would have invested in the premises and made the business busier, and made more profit and so on. Making comment about this might even prejudice the case of my 2005 rent review. But frankly I do not care any more. As it is now I'm still waiting for the outcome of the rent review. The arbitrator's been six months since the high court instructed him to make a recalculation of the award and still has not found time to consider this matter. I have it on good advice that the arbitrator is in contempt of court. The arbitration act 1996 states that an arbitrator should respond in full to the instructions of a high court within three months of the ruling's date. The hearing was May 19 2008. edited by: Admin at: 24/11/2008 08:29:33 This post replies to this thread |
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| J Mark Dodds 22/11/2008 17:29:57 |
Pubcos under cosh on radio show We thought it would be a precedental case. We thought it was likely that, instead of being made bankrupt as a result of the pubcos aggressive rent review and the arbitrator's tacit and surreal agreement that a completely unsustainable 20% rent increase was reasonable and in line with what the 'Fair Maintainable Trade' of the pub should be - 18% higher than the income the real tenant generates i.e. me. How DARE these industry lackeys decide rents that actually bankrupt people? How DARE they - say, decide, dictate, in their haughty, pseudo academic 'expert' chartered rarity that lessees should find impossible amounts of money to pay to rich corporations while living in personal penury. Waiting for the BDM to turn up in a company car with a boot full of freebie products for home consumption and insult them with their platitudes and pontification on how to run their business? This industry is a bad joke that has become a real nightmare for thousands and a roller coaster of profit for a few. It's November - six months have passed since the high dourt instructed him and unless the arbitrator hasn't noticed - he is IN CONTEMPT OF COURT. Being in CONTEMPT of Court for an arbitrator clearly isn't an issue is it? There's no where else higher to go than an arbitrator so, quite evidently they can do whatever the hel;l they like and nothing's going to happen. He's had other pressing professional commitments and has not been able to find the time to look at my case... (no time at £350 an hour - more than I earn in a week) The most recent thing that is getting in the way is that he has been called to do jury service. Well I assume there will be more alacrity in decision making at other people's expense in that court. Unless his tardiness influences the outcome to the extent that the case cannot be resolved and the jury is required to remain on hand for several months, or years even. edited by: Admin at: 24/11/2008 08:31:34 This post replies to J Mark Dodds > Pubcos under cosh on radio show |
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| J Mark Dodds 22/11/2008 17:38:22 |
Pubcos under cosh on radio show I'm a lessee who runs a small business for goodness sake. This sort of thing is completely unacceptable - for anyone to have to go through. And the only reason I've had to go through it is because I had the balls to stand up to a pubco. I had the balls but I didn't have any real choice did I? If I'd accepted their rent review I'd have been bankrupt three years ago. And I'm still here trading. Up to my neck in debt already and still with a strong possibility that I'll find myself owing a bunch of thieving barstewards 100 grand in back rent and punitive fees. How is anyone supposed to survive this kind of onslaught? How is anyone supposed to accept, as RICS qualified appointed arbitrators and surveyors do, that somehow this situation is 'fair'? How can the people who run this industry from the top down to the bottom not see just how ridiculous their actions are? How can they not see that their actions have been DESTROYING an industry, a heritage, a way of life, our culture? All for short term lining their own pockets - lining the pockets of everyone in the industry except those who actually pull the pints and talk to the punters. It's wrong. And it's because of the way pubcos have run their feifdoms - and learned that they can do anything they like no matter how amoral and underhand and get away with it. edited by: J Mark Dodds at: 22/11/2008 17:38:32 This post replies to J Mark Dodds > Pubcos under cosh on radio show |
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| J Mark Dodds 22/11/2008 17:40:58 |
Pubcos under cosh on radio show There's a line I like in a Snowpatrol song: "I'm glad it has taken so long; because it's the journey that made me so strong". This post replies to J Mark Dodds > Pubcos under cosh on radio show |
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alan waters 23/11/2008 13:27:06  |
Pubcos under cosh on radio show Hi mark you obviously speak from the heart and i for 1 know and appriciate how you must feel as ive gone through the same emotions and wonderd if its all worth it, as all ive done is make money for my pub company whom have never put anything back into this buissnes. so let us hope that the powrs that be will seewhats going on and help this industry out as thats all that keeps a lot of us hanging on. This post replies to J Mark Dodds > Pubcos under cosh on radio show |
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| oz wunsche 23/11/2008 20:35:04 |
Pubcos under cosh on radio show couldnt agree more alan. I think a proactive and positive approach from the committee is the only thing that can save the pub cos now (something they were too bloody minded, lazy and parasitic to do themselves). Lack of any real change in the status quo will see thousands of tenants who have been hanging on for this ruling give up the ghost. At least with a result which favours the licensee the pub cos might hold on to their biggest asset (ie the licensee's). Even very experienced operators of good sites are talking about handing the keys back now! The pub cos cannot do without the cashflow these units offer. With a strong ruling from the committee, a big drop in share prices and a takeover or three later, the pub industry might be showing the green shoots of recovery! wishful thinking... probably but it is their only hope edited by: oz wunsche at: 23/11/2008 20:36:16 This post replies to alan waters > Pubcos under cosh on radio show |
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| J Mark Dodds 23/11/2008 21:03:08 |
Pubcos under cosh on radio show It won't go away Ted and Giles. It won't go away. You see Alan; the way the pubcos work is to make all their individual lessees feel like they are the only ones who are finding it hard. They succeed, as Steve Corbett pointed out somewhere here; by dividing and conquering. It won't go away Ted and Giles. It won't go away. We're all out on a limb and they make / take advantage of us all. They work on the premise that we all feel paranoid. We - all oc us individuals - don't believe that everyone else can possibly be in dire straights as well. That just doesn't make sense. So how can a Select Committee believe it either? This is how the pubcos got away with it in 2004 and 2005 and all the other times the pubco model has been looked at by government and regulatory bodies. No on can believe that it's possible for a few big wigs to rip of hundreds of thousands of people and get away with it comprehensively without anyone making so much as a pip squeak of real protest. The difference between now and any other time the pubco model has been looked at is simple: It won't go away Ted and Giles. It won't go away. Every MP on that committee - as all other MPs - has had lots of their constituents coming to them and saying 'we're being killed by our freeholders' and the MPs realise this is not a coincidence, it;s because their constituents are actually being put out of business by their freeholders. It won't go away Ted and Giles. It won't go away. edited by: J Mark Dodds at: 23/11/2008 21:03:27 This post replies to alan waters > Pubcos under cosh on radio show |
