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News Article Comments : Green light for BII rent adjudication system
The BII aims to make its low-cost rent adjudication system a pan-industry initiative.
The BII Council last night gave support to the Independent Expert Determination Service in principle. The group’s chief executive Neil Robertson has been asked to talk to other trade bodies to form a “consortium” to move the proposal forward.
The service would allow licensees to use an independent rent expert for around £1,000 and obtain quick and binding results in rent disputes.
Pubcos, which are thought to broadly favour the scheme, would pay nearer £2,000. The Government is being asked to pay £100,000 towards it.
In February the BII revealed its plans for the service to the Business and Enterprise Committee. The BII is waiting for Committee’s report, expected in the next few weeks, before taking action.
Robertson said: “The BII Council has discussed the Independent Expert Determination Service. They see considerable merit in the proposal and think it would be of great value to the industry.
53 Posts(s) found for this thread: Now displaying page 5 of 6
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Alastair Elliott 06/04/2009 12:33:59  |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system Is this not just more smoke and mirrors. How many trade specialist surveyors, do not or have not worked for the pubco's. The BII are once again being used as the 'fall guy' for their puppet masters the Pubco's. It is doubtaful there is a truly independent expert out there. What is needed is a generic formula which can be applied at very little cost. I am sure someone like Brian Jacobs already has such a formula. Would the pubco's agree to this trasparent and open rent evaluation model, not a chance. This post replies to this thread |
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| info man 06/04/2009 12:46:37 |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system I am sure Brian has a method which is both fair and transparent. The RICS guys also have a formula which is long and concise but it is wildly abused. The basic pretence of a 50/50 split in profit is fair as the pubco still owns the building but it negates to mention the other 100% of direct profit to the pubco derived from the tie & the machine tie. Supply beer at fair market prices e.g. Fosters at £70 rather than £125 per 11 and put this in the formula. Publicans dont care about the fact the pubco will make on this deal due to buying power as it was taken to be part of a fair and open contract.I will not even go into RPI increases as they are a farce and equate to an anual rental increase which contravenes the recoomendations yet again. To put it simply if it followed the 2004 guidelines we would all be alot happier, as would our customers. The only ones who would have to take a reality check would be the pubco and revalue their property portfolio accordingly as with their debt. This post replies to Alastair Elliott > RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system |
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Forum user 4010 06/04/2009 13:21:32 |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system Phil - just reading my last post. When I say 'infantile steps' I don't mean to offend I just mean the BII rent adjudication is a new baby and its first steps will been seen as dictating its likely success as it develops into adulthood. There may be a little tottering and the odd fall but as long as the baby is influenced by responsible guardians it has every chance of a healthy and successful future. I think what everyone fears is that the guardians will be the pubcos and so step one is to openly show they are not pulling the strings at BII HQ. It sounds so conspiracy theory but the BBPA, supposedly the industry spokesman, have been shown up (Ted Tuppen Enterprise Inns being the former Chairman). The allegance of all the other trade organisations has been brought into the lime light. ALMR used to have 100 members and represent 30,000 pubs, when it came to the BESC they had 98 members and 15,000 represented and claimed no or limited pubco involvement, it sounds like pubcos are no longer retail members they have been 'swapped' on to Corporate membership - is that to try and hide their membership ? It sounded a bit that way. So whats the story with the BII and pubcos, a clear disclosure of the relationship would be good. Robin This post replies to Forum user 4010 > RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system |
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| martin kay 06/04/2009 19:08:24 |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system 4010, I think both main pubcos said they agreed to up or down reviews and heve done. They said the Clause would be taken out on a renewal, but to address your concern of their disposal, they did offer a legal contract, at your cost, to sort it. I think Fast Track is about a claim rather than setting a rent? This post replies to Forum user 4010 > RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system |
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| Nigel Wakefield 06/04/2009 20:08:06 |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system If you really want a simple system 4% of existing turnover with a full tie and 6% of turnover without a tie. This would bring the whole industry back to rental levels of pubs when I first bought a pub, pubs were a life time career not an eighteen month horror story in those days. We would need no convoluted double dutch calculations by surveyors and valuers who have never run pubs. The tied pubs would be viable, leases would have proper values and good operators would make a decent living and anyone taking a run down pub would have a realistic rent to get the pub going again, sadly it is too simple a solution. Be assured that the City Whizz Kids would vanish over night, the Golden Goose would not lay any more Golden Eggs and tenants would have an identifiable deal and virtually all pubs would be viable. Prop Co's would stop playing Monopoly and ruining vast numbers of inexperienced peoples lives. What they fail to understand that licensees with decent deals will by natural development make them serious long term wealth, like the old brewing families. This post replies to info man > RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system |
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| Forum user 4010 06/04/2009 20:57:17 |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system Martin I might be wrong but I have reviewed the TISC Q&A's it was Mr. Harrison that said they would be removed as soon as legally practicable. I have an email from EI saying what they mean by that is either on assignment or renewal. Our pub has been assigned 3 times since 2004 and still the UORR clause remains. Even accepting your idea that it would be taken out at renewal, I pose the question again, how many tenants out there have you heard of that have had their UORR clause removed since 2004 ? Fast Track is of course about a claim but isn't it much the same thing ? Two parties, a dispute, a Judge, submissions of evidence, a decision ? I appreciate it probably can't be quite that simple but am not sure why not. Robin This post replies to martin kay > RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system |
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| Forum user 4010 06/04/2009 21:03:50 |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system Nigel I like it. The free of tie situation is easy enough but the tied tenant still has a problem over pricing of products surely ? He could be paying 4% rent but products are 10 times open market price for example. Or have I missed something ? Robin This post replies to Nigel Wakefield > RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system |
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| Nigel Wakefield 06/04/2009 22:50:24 |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system If you sit down and think logically about the tie with Brewery owned pubs and the total tie on beers. I said this on a previous thread, almost all brewers with pubs supply the major Pub Co's, we all know the discounts demanded are in excess of £200 per brewers barrel otherwise they don't do business with you. These Brewers sell them beer and make a profit, plus extended credit. If they have a total tie for their tenants on a 200 brewers barrel pub they are making well in excess of £40K per pub with the tie in theory, plus the rent???? Sadly a lot of the old brewers have jumped on the rent bandwaggon set by the Pub Co's, the whole industry has to sit down and have a major rethink. I have too many guarded complaints from all licensees in pretty well all Pub owning companies, I use the term guarded because they realise they are better off than a lot of others, there is not the old attitude that they were delighted to be with that particular brewery for life, there is always that uncertainty about the long term future. This post replies to Forum user 4010 > RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system |
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| Forum user 4010 06/04/2009 23:30:31 |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system Sorry Nigel, what I am getting at is that free of tie is 6% of t/o, thats it. Your idea is that tied we pay 4% of t/o and presumably the other 2% is made up of the higher product price. Knowing how pubcos have a habit of taking advantage of a situation it seems to me it would not be long before that 2% started sneaking its way up and we would be back up <stop>****</stop> street. Robin This post replies to Nigel Wakefield > RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system |
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| M J 07/04/2009 01:01:38 |
RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system If you value freehold pubs properly at 1.5 times turnover who in there right mind is going to buy a freehold then leese it out for 4%of turnover which would return 2.66% on the investment. I aggree the rent should be based on real T/O but we need a more sensible figure. Also if there was a hard and fast ratio for rents and the pubco beleived the pub was underperforming all they would have have to do is employ one of there "average" operators for 1 yr to up the T/O and they could then up the T/O to the risc level and then relet it at a percentage of the then current T/O edited by: M J at: 07/04/2009 01:01:47 This post replies to Nigel Wakefield > RE: Green light for BII rent adjudication system |
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