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News Article Comments : High rural house prices fuel pub closures
A chronic shortage of affordable rural housing is helping to fuel the closure of hundreds of of country pubs and village shops.
The National Housing Federation (NHF) claims that 650 rural pubs and 400 village shops will be lost over the next 12 months as traditional British village life is plunged into terminal decline by the lack of affordable housing.
The British Beer and Pub Association (BBPA) estimates that 54 country pubs could close a month if current trends continue.
The NHF believes that the mass closures reflect a declining demand for services in villages where local families — the core customer base — had been priced out of the area by an influx of wealthy commuters and second home owners.
The "gentrification" of the countryside and chronic shortage of affordable homes have also made it increasingly difficult for pubs and shops to find workers who can afford to live locally and survive on modest wages.
The NHF said that 750,000 people are on the waiting list for an affor
12 Posts(s) found for this thread: Now displaying page 1 of 2
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info man 22/06/2009 10:43:34  |
RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures "Once these shops and pubs have closed, most are gone for good - only a small proportion will ever be revived." Well at least that part is true, but not down to local issues, down to the pubco owners who sell the sites with restrictive covernants. As freeholds most would flourish, not being tied to unsustainable rents and beer prices. If the BBPA (pubcos) believe this to be true why don't they outlaw the use of the covernants which stop the pubs from being used as pubs? This post replies to this thread |
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Ed Davies 22/06/2009 11:59:30 |
RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures Do you really think being a freehold in rural areas is as easy as that? I'm amazed that even this has been turned into anti-pubco! Freehouses around here are still struggling, many close down for winter. The reason? No locals, because local housing is sold as expensive 2nd homes for people from the city. Doesn't matter what you charge for your beer when there's nobody drinking it! Some of these pub will never be viable all year round. I've got to leave these forums now, YOUR SMALL-MINDED SELFISH THINKING DRIVES ME MAD. 'As freeholds most would flourish'. B*****s would they. Just shows how little YOU know about other pubs 'that part is true, but not down to local issus' No of course not, the only thing that affects pubs closing down is the pubcos. Well said info man, very well balanced! Not! edited by: Ed Davies at: 22/06/2009 12:00:39 This post replies to info man > RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures |
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| info man 22/06/2009 12:22:01 |
RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures Hi Ed, Sorry my trivialisation has rattled your cage. I do not think that running a rural pub is easy due to my own experience. Are you suggesting that all your locals migrate every winter? Or only the rich ones? I agree that it doesnt matter what you charge if no one drinks it because this is simple economics. Please tell me what is small minded about wanting restrictive covernants to cease? In the interest of being balanced lets discuss the issues and hold off on personal attacks. This post replies to Ed Davies > RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures |
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mr angry 22/06/2009 12:22:47 |
RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures ED I AGREE WITH YOUR POINTS, IT MUST BE VERY DIFFICULT EVEN IF YOU ARE A FREE HOUSE, YOU PAY THE SAME UTILITY COSTS VAT LICENCES ETC, I DO THINK, IF YOU ARE OUT IN THE STICKS SOMEWHERE YOU WILL SUFFER, AS YOU RIGHTLY SAY IT DOES`NT MATTER WHAT YOU CHARGE FOR THE BEER IF YOU DON`T HAVE CUSTOMERS, I AM TIED TO POOPCO`S SO I DO PAY WELL OVER THE ODDS FOR THE PLEASURE F RUNNING THEIR PUB LOL. I HAVE THUGHT THAT IF I WAS A FREE HOUSE I WOULD STRUGGLE, BUT NOT SO MUCH. This post replies to Ed Davies > RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures |
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| Gilbert Bank 22/06/2009 12:10:47 |
RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures As a former tied tenant of a rural pub in a village with 40% 2nd home occupancy my experience was that the incomers did not use any of the facilities in the village. They came at the weekend fully loaded from the supermarket and we never saw them. If they came at all. My own landlord/brewer thought it good business to sell 9gal at £58 to my 350yds away freehouse neighbour and £84 to me. He sold at the same price as me and we both struggled, but guess who struggled a little less? De was a nice bloke and we shared a few evenings discussing our woes. My pub closed after the next tenant. It has been stripped of all its pubbery and currently being used as a store. It won't be sold until there is a change in property values. As a freehouse it had a chance. As a tied house it was doomed. The landlord knew it, as they repeatedly misinformed incoming tenants of intended investment that never transpired. Their method is more insidious than restrictive covenants and it is vital that village pubs not be allowed change of use to residential unless they have lain dormant for 8 years. It will mean pubs are priced as their business merits not as a speculative interest. The more I see of EU law the less I see credible about the hand in glove relationship between gentlemen brewers and government. A rigged game is a rigged game. Local issues may be local, but mathematics is universal. This post replies to Ed Davies > RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures |
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| Lucy Cavendish 22/06/2009 12:45:02 |
RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures Gilbert my dear, you're looking lovely today by the way, everything you say there has the ring of truth but 'A rigged game is a rigged game' moreso than the rest of it. The crux of the whole ruddy mess is that irrespective of the justice or otherwise of the situation, the pubcos hold all five aces. For example, do you really think that T+T don't have MPs on THEIR side and the same in the EU Parliament? Just think what has happened in Westminster over the last few weeks and that should provide you with the answer. The wheels of industry always need 'greasing' as they say. I have never believed that a full frontal attack to bring down the pubcos had a snowball in hell's chance of success, negotiation being the only way forward. I can feel Info mans' gimlet eyes boring into the back of my neck already. :) This post replies to Gilbert Bank > RE: High rural house prices fuel pub closures |
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| Ed Davies 22/06/2009 12:32:13 |
High rural house prices fuel pub closures What's trivial about wanting covenants to stop? Nothing, I fully agree that they should be banned. What's trivial is your attitude that every problem stems from the pubcos: "Once these shops and pubs have closed, most are gone for good - only a small proportion will ever be revived." Well at least that part is true, but not down to local issues, down to the pubco owners who sell the sites with restrictive covernants. As freeholds most would flourish, not being tied to unsustainable rents and beer prices. If the BBPA (pubcos) believe this to be true why don't they outlaw the use of the covernants which stop the pubs from being used as pubs? NOT DOWN TO LOCAL ISSUES, DOWN TO THE PUBCO... I don't believe that shops aren't re-opening due to pubcos for a start. And around these parts freehouses close down, due to many reasons. AS FREEHOLDS MOST WOULD FLOURISH Have a look around this part of the countryside and you'll find most pubs, tied or not, ticking along nicely this time of year. There isn't one pub in the area that's 'flourishing', but many, many good pubs. cont... This post replies to this thread |
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| Ed Davies 22/06/2009 13:15:18 |
High rural house prices fuel pub closures cont... I'm not suggesting all my locals vanish come winter, but there aren't enough locals to keep a pub of our size going throughout winter. There just aren't enough locals in winter - many to migrate back to the city. We save what we can in summer, but to give you a few examples of what it's like - 2 pubs in the town will close after sunday lunch and open again Wed or Thurs. We'll close 2 nights a week at 9pm. A pub down the road closes in November for a few months. I can't speak on the others, but we work on a system that we need X% GP in order to survive. We then work out what that means at the pumps. We then do everything we can to make it value for money. As an example, ales are £3 a pint (Pedigree/Butty Bach/Rev James). To provide value for money, we've made sure we've won as many awards for them as possible. I've also struck a deal with 2 local brewers which allow me to offer 2 'house beers' at £2.80 - the cheapest in the town. Rates are expensive here, as are the elec and gas. It's a big pub, which is nice in summer but come winter those rates still have to be paid. We've tried, last winter, a Wednesday night meal deal. 2 of our main courses, plus any pint or 175 glass of wine, for £13. We were trying the 'some money is better than no money'. It didn't take off in 3 months - we actually found we were loosing money as people that were coming out anyway just went for the offer. Every day I challenge myself to think of a new way to 'gain and retain' customers. I train all staff in house, to my standards, to make sure that whatever I'm doing, the staff will still be pouring a perfect pint, smiling and saying goodbye to customers. A loved one has just spent a week in hospital after collasping last Monday and rushing to A&E. And I log on this morning to find 'info man' telling me I should be rolling in it because I spent a fortune with my family buying a freehouse, rather than take on a tied pub. This post replies to Ed Davies > High rural house prices fuel pub closures |
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| info man 22/06/2009 13:39:14 |
High rural house prices fuel pub closures "I log on this morning to find 'info man' telling me I should be rolling in it because I spent a fortune with my family buying a freehouse, rather than take on a tied pub." Hardly what I posted ED, I said most would Flourish. To me "flourish" is being able to break even, no suggestion of rolling in it. I only wish that were true. I am happy to read of your added benifits and can tell you that the same happens in the city as well. I know of many pubs which shut up until Thursday night and only operate over the weekends as that is when the trade is about. The rates and utility costs affect us all, with city pubs suffering even more in referance to rates. This is not a competition to see whose business is most hard up but a debate on the real issues for the problems we are in. These issues affect us all but the simple fact is that under a pubco tied lease the GP is much lower and the chances of survival are reduced further still. This post replies to Ed Davies > High rural house prices fuel pub closures |
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| John Ellis 22/06/2009 14:16:08 |
High rural house prices fuel pub closures Ed and "infoman" are both right, but Ed's post addresses the issue of high rural house prices affecting pubs. "Infoman" is right about pub property companies making things worse but that only accounts for 25-30% of all pubs. Non-"pubco" issues affect ALL of us! John Ellis Crown Inn, Oakengates This post replies to this thread |
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