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News Article Comments : Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical
The Campaign for Real Ale’s (CAMRA) fight against the beer tie is “illogical”, one city analyst has claimed.
Douglas Jack of Numis said that removing the tie would reduce pub product range, investment, support and supply, driving up prices as a result.
“CAMRA is not helping tenants or consumers by attempting to drive down pub profitability through transferring purchasing power to the brewers,” he said.
“Now that all parties have agreed to the RICs guidelines on rent setting, it should be campaigning for extended central purchasing to reduce pub costs and therefore prices, boosting pub and tenant profitability in the process. Thus, its beer tie stance is illogical.”
Jack also said that some of CAMRA’s claim that the beer tie had inflated price to the counsumer by 50p a pint was “fictitious”. He said that the average beer price across Punch and Enterprise pubs at 30 September was £2.62 a pint — 3% above the average of £2.54 a pint. The average freetrade price was £2.56, according to
40 Posts(s) found for this thread: Now displaying page 1 of 4
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Karl Harrison 08/02/2010 19:06:01  |
RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical What wonderful nonsense from Douglas Jack - despite his claims not at all a leading analyst on the sector. Mr Jack is an avid supporter of Punch and Enterprise issuing buy notes all the time that the share prices were collapsing. He now demonstrates that he understands little about the current RICS process and seems to believe, quite wrongy, that 'central purchasing' and pubcos has something to do with lower pub prices. The lack of benefit of purchasing power being passed on to pubs and consumers is central to the CAMRA complaint of course. The discounting system in the pub sector is an illusion created to support the tied model and to allow the over-selling of beer to tied tenants. In the free of tie market operators are concerned with net pricing, quite rightly. That competitive market will remain if the tie is removed - I'm sure that smaller brewers would be delighted to take market share if the bigger players were to hike prices as is the fear story created by the likes of Mr Jack, the BBPA etc. This post replies to this thread |
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| Karl Harrison 08/02/2010 19:10:28 |
Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical Along with other very significant misunderstandings what Mr Jack can't seem to grasp is that free of tie pubs have the choice of around 2,500 ales. Tied pubs simply don't have that choice and so the tie has to be a negative. The pubcos have been using a scheme call DDS, run by SIBA. This supposedly allows access to the tenanted estates for small brewers. In reality the DDS scheme is used by the pubcos, in one of their smarter moves frankly, as a front to deceive the authorities into believing that they are not foreclosing the market. It seems to have worked for some time on that basis. The small brewers who use the scheme are required by the pubcos to hike their wholesale prices so that the poor tenants of the pubcos can be deceived into paying that higher rate. Of course the pubco itself pays the usual price, or less, for the smal brewers product and pockets the difference. I think that Mr Jack would probably interpret this as some sort of benefit for the pub or the customer from central purchasing power although he would be on his own...or maybe with the suits at the OFT who are equally naive. We're rather hoping that the RICS,in its current considerations, will reach the correct conclusion that the lack of access to 2,500 ales for a tied pub is a disbenefit and not a, what do they call them, 'counterveiling' This post replies to this thread |
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| Karl Harrison 08/02/2010 19:21:21 |
RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical Let's look at some reality here. The website for Numis points to Mr Jack having 12 years of experience in the sector. This confines Mr Jack's direct knowledge of the pub sector to the 'pubco era' which is hopefully staggering to a close. Given his limited personal experience then it is not at all unlikely the he considers the pubco model to be the norm rather than the aberration that it really is. More experienced sector analysts include Mark Brumby at Astaire and Jamie Rollo at Morgan Stanley. Both, quite rightly, have sell notes on Punch and Enterprise. There are others such as Merrill Lynch kicking round the sidelines in relation to market commentary. Merrills, did some of the bookrunning on Punch's recent rights issue that upset so many investors, put out a buy note on the pubcos last week after hosting a get together for pubco luminaries and analysts. Unfair comment after that suggested that it would have been rude to do anything other than say something upbeat so they did. The note went out at about 126p, Enterprise bucked up 3p before selling and bad news caused he SP to fall like stone to 108p today at or around the 20 day average. It would, of course, be outrageous to suggest that there were Merrill's punters looking for an exit from pubco stocks or a good entry level for a short position. I wouldn't suggest that and nor should anyone else. This post replies to this thread |
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| Inez Ward 08/02/2010 19:54:25 |
Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical Isn't foreclosure a big no-no? It's really surprising who will talk off the record, what is even more surprising is what they have to say. It's a disgrace of national proportions. All of this has to go to the Competitions Commission, it is the only way forward and as I have said before, if the pubcos have nothing to worry about then they should be embracing it! Both Enterprise and Punch have said they have nothing to worry about, so put your money where your mouth is and prove it!!! This post replies to Karl Harrison > Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical |
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Peter Smith 08/02/2010 20:03:08 |
RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical Karl, you appear to be a bit emotional and distressed. Jack had a Sell recommendation on Punch Taverns at this time last year, when the shares were collapsing and a Hold on Enterprise Inns, not a Buy on both oompanies. Fact. Re today's article, he merely quoted published CGA statistics on pricing and supply change. He did not claim to be all things you stated. I understand your anger, but you are not producing facts and clear argument and in the process you undermining your argument, stance and the cause. This post replies to Karl Harrison > RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical |
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| Inez Ward 08/02/2010 20:15:44 |
RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical Peter Smith, I know that name don't I, please correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you a member of the JFL forum? Well somebody of that name was and I know, is that enough said? This post replies to Peter Smith > RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical |
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| J Mark Dodds 08/02/2010 21:07:24 |
RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical Peter Smith. You are writing what is known in normal circles as GUFF. All your posts do this. Why? Are you THE Peter Smith? edited by: J Mark Dodds at: 08/02/2010 21:07:42 This post replies to Peter Smith > RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical |
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| Inez Ward 08/02/2010 21:11:15 |
RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical Mark the answer is simple lol! Thanks Mark, I like to laugh lol! edited by: Inez Ward at: 08/02/2010 21:11:39 This post replies to J Mark Dodds > RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical |
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| David James 08/02/2010 21:29:51 |
RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical The content of this post is currently under review |
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| Inez Ward 08/02/2010 22:23:54 |
RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical David James, or whomever you may be, not prepared to go there! Answer this one, if you dare lol, Karl is quite comfortable in his own well being, why should he bother himself other than to see a sense of justice? And please don't give me the rhetoric of others, because it is just not acceptable! Oh to hell with it, let's go there lol, considering the economy with the truth that I have had to deal with from the people that you know that I am talking about, why the hell should I believe them??? The BBPA and other so called bodies (who are supposed to represent this trade) and some pubcos have been more than economical, come on sweetie, let's blow this whole debacle wide open!!!! Let's go to the CC, do you have the where with all???? Can you/they deal with it??? All of you, if you have done no wrong then you have absolutely nothing to fear, so let's go there! edited by: Inez Ward at: 08/02/2010 22:26:42 This post replies to David James > RE: Analyst: CAMRA's beer tie fight is illogical |
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