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News Article Comments : Union demands safer conditions for draymen
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33 Posts(s) found for this thread: Now displaying page 1 of 4
| Author Name | Opinion | Reply |
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edward carpenter 20/03/2008 16:51:55 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen Good luck to them,but then they have trade union representation and negotiating muscle. Do us all a favour lads and go on strike for 6 months. Now wheres the nearest wholesaler. This post replies to this thread |
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Ken Nason 20/03/2008 18:06:31 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen Before this unioin start shouting the draymans case they need to look into the industry and learn a few facts.
A barrel is 36 gallons mate. "barrels over 11 gallons" my word.
It's hard enough getting credits for beer now without having someone from the supplier witnessing it being thrown away. And what about poluting the water?
I agree there should be at least two men per dray and they should be well trained not just contract labour. Draymen managed to deliver and remove barrels(36g ) and hogsheads (54g) from underground cellars for years without anything more than skill and technique.
Anyway as landlord and receiver of these goods if you are not happy with the safety of the load or delivery methods refuse delivery.
ken Nason This post replies to this thread |
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| Kenny Cleet 20/03/2008 19:07:18 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen I think the job they do is a very hard job and to even contemplate them lifting out 'hogsheads' in this day and age is a trip back to dark ages and just plain stupid.11g kegs are hard enough I've had to do it myself and it's not fun i can tell you. Years ago the drayhorse would perform this task not the drayman. It's not just lifting the ullage out anyway what about the 15 to 30 pubs a day these lads deliver to, that's potentially a 150 pubs a week thats a hell of a lot of lifting. Bloody heroes if you ask me!
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Irene Bujman 20/03/2008 19:40:53 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen I remember as a twelve year-old struggling with hundredweight bags of cement that were delivered to my father's builder's yard. They're half that size now and no-one's grumbling. Less chance of getting back trouble too, a serious cause of absenteeism in the trade. I've often marvelled at these lads shifting dangerous loads around and kept well back. This post replies to Kenny Cleet > RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen |
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jane acott 21/03/2008 00:09:24 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen Dear God, we really do live in a world where people are not happy unless they are grumbling on about hazards, potential hazards blah blah blah. We live in a world at the moment where common sense is no longer common and unless you have been trained in the ins and outs of a cats arsehole you can sue anyone for anything from arsehole to breakfast time. It is time we forgot babyfying everyone, removed the red tape and copius amounts of bubble wrap and just got on with our jobs. The world still went round before all these suggested policies and rules didnt it? This post replies to Irene Bujman > RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen |
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| Ken Nason 21/03/2008 09:53:35 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen Quite right Jane, exactly my point. If anything the draymands job is easier now than it ever was. Smaller amounts to drop, smaller containers.
What has changed is that instead of three men on a dray dropping off 40 barrels(36 gal for the ignorant) to a pub and roping and thrawling in place we have one guy dropping of half a dozen 9's and 11's. The job appears harder because of the reduction of labour purely to increase profits. Kenny do you think that removing a full barrel from a cellar was done by muscle alone? Of course they roped it and hitched it to the lorry and used horsepower rather than muscle.
Trained draymen had perfected perfectly safe and efficient systems to deliver and remove casks from all types of pubs without the need to reduce cask sizes or install hoists and lifts.
It was the companies desire to get rid of highly paid skilled experienced workers and replace them with muppets paid peanuts to increase their own profits that killed off the skilled draymen.
Ken Nason This post replies to jane acott > RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen |
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| jane acott 21/03/2008 12:57:42 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen Quite right Ken! Surely they would also have less to do as the trade is in decline. So if pubs are not as busy, they will be ordering less stock, so less to deliver all this equates to less delivery work will it not? This post replies to Ken Nason > RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen |
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| dik parker 21/03/2008 16:53:11 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen Dear Ken. When was the last time you went out and delivered 17to18 tonnes of beer, by hand? Just to get that off the lorry would be hard enough work for most human beings. That my freind is just the beggining of a very hard process. Some accounts are uphill pushes, downhill holdbacks, steps, gravel etc etc. I could go on all day. Then if that is not enough sweat and toil, there are empty containers to contend with, cases of bottles etc! I dont want any sympathy here, just the people who come on here, and i quote "the draymands job is easier now than it ever was" to understand it is not. Period. If anything it is a lot harder. So im going out with a few of my muppet friends to eat, oops sorry spend some of my hard earned peanuts! Dik This post replies to Ken Nason > RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen |
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| Kenny Cleet 21/03/2008 16:55:02 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen Are we all missing the point of this article? It just seems a good excuse to rant on about all the negatives in the pub/brewing industry at the minute! what i read in the article is 1. opposing further expansion of one man deliveries. (what if one man has an accident delivering to your pub, what would you do?) 2. recognising dangers and eliminating them. (why should anybody work in a dangerous enviroment if most of them could easily be eliminated) 3. not stacking containers over 11g on back of vehicles. (i assume they mean full ones, 22g and 36g containers are bloody heavy how are you supposed to get these down safely, they would be over 12ft in the air) 4. removing of partially full containers out of cellars over 11g. ( why cant the container be emptied if you have a sump, the old tech services guys used to do it and you got your credit back a hell of a lot quicker then, rather than waiting for the dray to pick it up and get processed through the system) 5.medical checks for distribution workers. (why not) 6.induction training. (if they were trained longer and more intense you would get a better,safer more accomplished draymen like yesteryear instead of 'the muppets' that ken wrote about) The article and demands of the union don't seem unreasonable to me, it is 2008, pherhaps jane and her cronies would have children working in dickensian workhouses? and wouldnt be happy untill the mortality rate of working men and women came down to about 35 years old then throw them on the scrapheap. If jane's beer sales are down that doesn't surprise me as her attitude probably scares all her customers away and probably her draymen, does she ride a broomstick?surely she had induction training to learn how to do that? maybe she should 'recognise the dangers of riding a broomstick and try to eliminate them' i would hate to see her fall off. GIVE THE LADS A FAIR DEAL SEEMS TO ME ALL THEY WANT IS A SAFER WORKING This post replies to this thread |
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| jane acott 21/03/2008 17:22:30 |
RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen No I do not ride on a broomstick but would be happy to shove my yard broom in your rear direction. You missed my point completly. I was not having a pop at draymen but at the over tedious policies and legislation regarding health and safety inflicted upon us by those of a higher being. The point Ken and I were making was that in a world with TOO much legislation leads to people being able to sue left, right and centre without in many cases a due cause. We live in a nanny state and this is what it has produced. For the record Kenny, I believe that you do have to draw a line on over training staff. The introduction to training will not always create a safer environment for workers unless they choose to adhere what they have learned. If you ignore your training and have an accident due to your own lack of common sense you sue your employer anyway it just makes the trip to court a lot easier. I mean no disrespect to draymen or the likes as they do have a hard job but so do I. I lift 9 and 11 gals every day around my cellar but I do not complain as it is my job. As self employed if I had an accident I have no one to blame but myself, however I use my common sense. This post replies to Kenny Cleet > RE: Union demands safer conditions for draymen |
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