Pub smokers face thousand pound fines
Northern Ireland has broken rank with the rest of the UK by proposing to fine smokers who light up in a pub £1,000.
A similar breach in Scotland - and proposed for England - would only result in a £50 fine for the smoker whereas licensees can be fined £200.
Licensees in Northern Ireland face fines of up to £2,500 but smokers may not be as tempted to flout the ban with the £1,000 threat.
Licensees can't be blamed for everything. Federation of Licensed Victuallers Associations chief executive Tony Payne.
The proposals are in the draft Smoking (Northern Ireland) Order which is before Parliament and could be implemented when the ban comes in next April.
Federation of Licensed Victuallers Associations chief executive Tony Payne said: "£1000 is a bit extreme. Scotland has the fines about right but the fine for the smoker needs to be similar to that of the licensee.
"Licensees can't be blamed for everything."
The draft Order proposes establishing four new offences - failing to display no smoking signs; smoking in a smoke-free place; failing to prevent smoking in a smoke-free place; and obstructing an authorised officer.
Fines and details of the smoke ban in England are to be published for three-month consultation before July 25.
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Your CommentsPaul via email 14/07/2006"If the Government are to push through this unwanted & unpopular legislation then they ought to offer some help to the publicans who will suffer most under this draconian ban. The independant licencees who do not have pots of money to throw at outdoor smoking area's. Large pub companies will ride the storm by dipping in to their fortunes to provide comfortable outdoor smoking area's , the independents do not have the finantial power of the pubco's.
I have not pushed for early release of the detials of this legislation because I still maintain that this ban is completely wrong.
Compromise is the way forward."
Robert Feal-Martinez via email 14/07/2006"The chaos continues, so lets wait for the English version now to shoot up, to be topped by the Welsh version. This is just a game to politicians and civil servants. To Licensees it's our lives. Doesn't anyone out there care that thousands of lives will be destroyed such draconian fines. You get fined less for motoring offences. All that the Tories or the Lib Dems need to do is to say, if we are elected we will give choice and hey presto we would have a new Government and then perhaps proper pubs will not be a thing of the past. It is quite ironic that over 320 MP's have signed up to the Sustainable Comunities Campaign, and yet have have voted to destroy a major part of any community, the Pub. Is it any wonder people have no faith in Politics or Politicians. And for goodness sake Mr Payne will you stop making comments you just make things worse. They won't lower the Licensees fine they'll just up the smokers. But that would be fair wouldn't it."
Peter Harvey via email 14/07/2006"I would like to see fair fines rather than the bolshy way this government treats us hard working licensees the amount they are suggesting is as usual ridiculous. still it will give the police something to do because every time someone lights up in my pub I will phone them, sorted No conflict no fine because its then a Police problem.
We will I suppose have to put up loads of no smoking signs too whose going to pay for all this?"
Robert Feal-Martinez via email 14/07/2006"Sorry to tell you this Peter but by phoning the Police it doesn't negate your responsibility. You see the Police do not want to know it's an EHO thing. As for the signs, well that's down to you as well. Even though it has been questioned as to why you need signs to tell people they can't do something anywhere in enclosed public places. It seems Lord Warner had a problem explaining that one. But it will still be in the regulations. Perhaps someone ought to investigate whether any Government Health Minister has a directorship or family member in signs.!!!!!!!!!!"
E B Cant via email 14/07/2006"Can someone please explain to me, no smoking in public places, what about public toilets where no one is around to monitor if someone is smoking, will someone from the council be fined for not managing the toilets, or the telephone boxes, will british telecom be fined for not manning their telephone boxes, if they are allowed to get away with it, then surely we as publicans are being victimised."
Sharon Donald via email 18/07/2007"I would like to say that I agree with E B Cant, on the question of policing no smoking in public places. Publicans are being victimised but then they are easy targets. As I understand it after listening to the Lords debate if two men work on a farm and one is a smoker and the other isnt if they share a tractor in shifts the smoker cannot smoke in the tractor because the next worker getting in dosent smoke. Who will police what is happening in a field in the middle of no where?
Publicans are easy targets"
Peter Harvey via email 18/07/2006"This is a fine "level playing field" isn't it. E.B. why stop at public toilets and phone boxes? When you also add bus shelters, farm vehicles, white van Stan and all other commercial vehicles - including taxis and probably every vehicle with advert signs on them, then ask the same question of who or how this is going to be policed; the playing field gets extremely twisted. Small wonder the police and HSE have walked away from the whole sorry issue. This paves the way for an explosion of new EHO / trading standards folk who. freshly armed with blue lights and Chelsea tractors will go about their task in an even handed way; Hmmm. I suppose these new jobs will offset some of the "licensee bankruptcies" etc particularly in the rural areas.
Peter, you could well be right to call the police, following the affray at your door as you juggle between your responsibilities to the Licencing objectives and this ban after you have told punters they cant smoke inside and cant take their drinks outside. I daren't imagine how the regulations are going to try to "direct" us on this issue."
ublicans are easy targets"
