Pubs told to keep smokers quiet

Edinburgh licensees are being warned to keep their smoking customers quiet or face losing their licences.

The warning to pubs, clubs and bars in the Scottish capital comes after noisy outdoor smokers sparked a string of complaints from angry neighbours.

A total of 44 premises were reported to the council in 49 complaints during the first three months of the smoking ban.

People shouldn't move in near to a pub if they mind a bit of noise​Avril McKnight, manager of the Antiquary.

Licensing officers will monitor the premises and those which are subject of repeated complaints are being warned they face losing their license.

Avril McKnight, manager of the Antiquary pub on St Stephen Street in Stockbridge, told the Scotsman: "We do try to police it and go outside and explain to people that there are a lot of residential flats round here and ask them to keep the noise down, but there is not a lot more we can do."​

"The pub has been here a long time, we opened around 30 or 40 years ago, so people shouldn't move in near to a pub if they mind a bit of noise."

However, councillor Sheila Gilmore, the city's community safety leader, told the paper: "It is the responsibility of individual licensees to ensure that their patrons do not create a disturbance for residents living nearby."​

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Your Comments​Bill Gibson​ via email 26/07/2006"Not being in the trade can someone please advise me as to where the responsibility of a landlord ends. I would have thought that the entrance to the premises is a fair enough border-crossing. As it is, the premises is a private business where we are invited inside to participate in hospitality. This question is a genuine one, no wind-ups in any way but the Smoking Legislation will deem clear, concise definitions on responsibilities of the trade and need to be set from day one."

Paul​ via email 26/07/2006"Under the new Licensing Act 2003, there is a responsibility to ensure that the licensing objectives are met, which include Public Nuisance and Crime and Safety. As this 'disturbance' takes place within the vicinity of the premises it could be seen as not meeting the licensing objectives. I assume that pubs who have stricter licensing conditions around people entering the premises and not using outside areas after a certain time will not be able to let customers use these in any case(?).

Sheila Moore​ via email 26/07/2006"The scottish smoking ban: our small Bistro never had a problem with smokers - until the ban! We now have a crowd of up to 15 people from the bar next door standing outside our premises with their smoke coming in through our door and windows. They can be quite loud and frequently swear and - horrifically - spit onto the pavement. The mess of cigarrette ends is a disgrace. And no, there is nothing I can do about it. England beware."

Liz Barber​ via email 27/07/2006"Which is why the ban on smoking in all public places is an absolute pigs ear.

SOLUTION - Provide smoking permitted venues then the smokers (and those non smokers who must now join them outside if they wish to socialise together) can go back inside the pub.

Problem sorted - or is that just too bloody simple for the high minded elitists who rule our lives?

All quiet in the beer garden - barring heatwave periods when I suspect it impossible to discern that it is ONLY the SMOKERS making a racket -though I understand a device is being developed as we speak which will prove that smokers make 34.7% more noise in real terms than non smoking beer garden users...

Or maybe they'll just ban smoking outside too - As predicted by me 6 months ago before the ban ever came in

Ken Nason​ via email 27/07/2006"Now then we have here a thorny problem of responsibility, not just of the licensee but of the authorities.

The licensing objectives include, as stated, the prevention of public nuisance. (still to be defined in law I fear)

It is fair to assume that responsibility by the licensee is firmly placed on him only in connection with the licensable activities( to which the objectives refer)

Smoking is not a licensable activity and therefore the licensee cannot possibly be held responsible for people who carry out a legal pastime OFF his premises. If they were standing on his doorstep drinking then it would be a different matter. Any complaints regarding noise must surely be directed to those making it through the usual channels.

If there is a nuisance being caused then surely under law, the licensing authority have some responsibility for aiding and abetting to answer as it is their enforcement that forces people to be outside in the first place.

I for one am heartily sick to death of this drive to make hard working, law abiding licensee responsible for the actions of every one of society's wrongs and have their livelyhoods and homes threatened by every petty official who feels they can decide that they must toe the line or loose their license.

Bill Gibson​ via email 31/07/2006"Sheila..did you respond to the Consultation Document or attend any of the regional roadshows that were presented by the Scottish Executive? There is a lot you can do, that is if you want to. First of all 76% of those responding to the Consultation Document wanted more restrictions on smoking but not the ban that is now in place. Secondly, the Smoking Ban was never in the manifesto of either the Labour or Lib Dem Parties therefore it could be considered to be illegal. To say that there is nothing you can do about the mess etc is wrong, protest about this unwanted legislation and remember that next ,year there are elections to be faught at Hollyrood. But that is not to say that you should vote SNP either as immediately after the vote to ban smoking, Nicola Sturgeon MSP nearly took Jack McConnell MSP by the hand to drag him to the alter to have the ban blessed. So join Freedom to Choose now...it is never too late."