Full transcript of interview with Vernon Coaker

Ewan Turney met up with Home Offcie minister Vernon Coaker last week - 13 June 2007 - to discuss the National Alcohol Strategy

ET: Is it fair to say that the new strategy sees a shift in focus on the off trade and a move to make the off-trade clean up its act in terms of cheap booze?

VC: I think the thing to say is that what we want to do is focus on everything as a whole. We have the three groups, and you don't need me to go through those, that we have identified as a problem. And where there is a problem we want to deal with it. We have very good relationships with the on-trade and good relationships with the off-trade but there are specific issues. We know there are issues about tackling underage drinking and we have worked hard with the on trade to do that.

The responsibility of principles document works pretty well.

It is not a case of saying we are targeting one sector or the other but what we want to look at is has the responsibility document meant that there are any issues still left for us around irresponsible promotions and those sorts of things.

What we are unclear about is the what the linkage is between some of these and that is why we have set up the review to get some evidence on what the link is between price and consumption and what link is between promotions and consumption and what impact it has so if we do do anything we have some evidential base.

That is why we set up the independent review.

ET: into drinks pricing?

VC: Yes. But we are pleased with the progress that has been made in most respects. I think that is fair of both the on-trade and the off-trade. We have been pleased with working together to try to improve things and things have improved. For us now the issue is what we do with respect to the on-trade and the off trade where there are still problems.

ET: In terms of the progress made are you pleased with what has been done in the on-trade specifically with the code on promotions and figures from the British Beer and Pub Association that reveal 1 million people are turned away from pubs each month?

VC: Yes. The Best Bar None, Challenge-21 all of those sorts of things, the way that the security industry works with local police so we have got the increased number of Pubwatch schemes. I think the management of the whole sector has improved significantly. And what I am clear about is that I know the industry wants to tackle where there is a problem and is still issues - they want to tackle that and work with us to tackle it. So, we are pleased with the progress that has been made.

The examples I have just given show very well the progress and that has come about without any regulation. That has come about through working with and talking to the industry.

ET: So very much a partnership approach?

VC: The partnership approach is the way forward and we don't want to regulate. We want to achieve even more through collaboration and co-operation and working together.

ET: So you think the voluntary codes of practice have worked and have had a benefit and you would rather have those than regulation?

VC: Yes the whole Government view is we want to achieve the best possible standards we can through voluntary agreements. We don't want to go down the route of regulation. And I think we have made a good deal of progress and more progress has to be made with a handful of premises. I mentioned the Best Bar None - that's been great. The Challenge-21 is very good. The way that people, the security industry and door supervisors, the way in the city centres they are working with local police. The training in managed premises, the way that has been done, all of those sorts of things have made very real progress.

We know there are still one or two issues. If I raise one it is what are we going to do about serving someone who is drunk. Selling to people who are you know... how we deal with that and then you get into the difficulty of how do you determine they are drunk. What do you do if you've got a 19 year old woman serving behind the bar so there are issues around there.

ET: So serving people who are drunk or intoxicated is a big issue?

VC: It is still an issue for us and the industry itself is saying that the right answer, the way to deal with that is not to lecture or to hector but to say we know there are still issues around this.

ET: So you are not going to send in sting operations with drunk people?

VC: (Laughs) We have no plans to do that I repeat that no plans to do that. All I am saying is to point out there are still issues and we want to overcome those and we want to overcome those as far as we can by working together.

ET: You say you want to do it together but one of the big issues in the on-trade at the moment is this issue with the supermarkets selling alcohol very cheaply, below cost and that has got to be irresponsible behaviour and yet when they are called in by the parliamentary beer group to answer questions about it, they flatly said no they would not increase prices as its not in their nature to do so. How do you work with supermarkets to deal with that?

VC: Well that's one of the things we are looking at as part of the independent review. One of things to look at will be to look at the impact on alcohol consumption of discounted prices. We know, for example, that ordinary rules of competition apply and its in the market place and all of those sorts of things. So we have to be careful in respect of all of that.

But what we are going to do is have an independent review of it and see what happens. Supermarkets say it is legitimate competition and all they are doing is attracting people to their own business rather than anyone else's business. So we want to have a look at all that and as we say we don't want to pre-judge the outcome of the review but we need to look at what it tells us about discount prices and promotions and talk to the industry. Our expectation is that if it demonstrates there is an issue we will talk to them about what we are going to do about it.

ET: The strategy also mentions local alcohol harm reduction strategies - how do you envisage those working? What is going to be involved?

VC: Essentially now the Government is moving towards local area agreements in all spheres. It is partnerships that bring everyone together - business, police, health, schools, probation all of the different people coming together to identify local problems in a local area. What we are saying is obviously the Government has a big agenda with the National Alcohol Strategy so it says we are going to concentrate on these three groups binge drinking 18-24 year olds, underage sales and then people drinking to such an extent they are causing themselves harm. We think the best way in different areas in different parts of the country there will be different ways of dealing with that so we have set the framework but what we are saying is local people at a local level and local people collaborating together will know how best to deal with it. In some areas if you have a student city, for example, it may be you have a different alcohol harm reduction strategy than if you are in a rural area. Local flexibility within a national framework.

ET: And trade involvement in that?

VC: Of course, of course. The trade has to be involved. If the trade isn't involved and business isn't involved then the way in which we achieve.... we won't achieve all that we want to achieve. Its not about lecturing people not to go to the pub its not about lecturing people about saying you shouldn't drink, because I drink, I go to the pub but what it is about is about is we are saying we know, and the industry says as well, there is an issue around alcohol but its different things in different areas with different people. If you are talking about binge drinking, that is not the same problem as someone who is an alcoholic.

ET: Sting campaigns are set to continue. I think they have made a major impact on the industry and the amount of people being turned away and being asked for ID and Ch