'Irreplaceable' Tony Payne not slowing down as retirement nears

At the age of 75, with retirement approaching fast and the industry in the state it's in, you could forgive Tony Payne for easing up a little.

But anyone who has dealt with the chief executive of the Federation of Licensed Victuallers Associations (FLVA) knows that isn't likely to happen.

Part of his current job is helping search for his successor at the organisation that primarily represents licensees in the North of England.

Filling the shoes of the man who has been doing this job and similar roles for the best part of 35 years will be no easy task.

And if it wasn't for the ageing process Tony would be happy to stay on for even longer.

"I'm 75 now and I worry what would happen to the FLVA if I wasn't capable of doing the job any more," he says. "I have always said I would go on for as long as I can. I would go on until I was 80 if I could but I don't want to let the organisation or the membership down."

He certainly can't be accused of that at the moment. When I arrive at the FLVA's headquarters in Brighouse, West Yorkshire, at 9am he has already been working for a couple of hours.

The office is packed with various files and books on pubs and the licensed trade. On the wall, next to a photo of Tony picking up his CBE for services to the industry, a caricature shows him drowning in a sea of paperwork.

It's a fair representation of a man who spends much of his time dealing with legislation changes, tribunals and rent reviews, and trying to settle disputes between his members and various organisations.

Whoever those disputes are between, be it licensees and landlords, local authorities or utility companies, Tony is adamant that open-ness on both sides is the key to a successful resolution.

"We sit down and speak to both sides," he says. "We are never going to satisfy everybody, but you will hear some horrendous stories. People coming into the trade are just not taking enough advice."

Talk of the tie

As we talk, the subject of the Business and Enterprise Committee report into pub companies inevitably comes up. Perhaps surprisingly for someone who fights on the side of the Davids, he is far from convinced by arguments that the beer tie should be abolished.

"What I believe is that lessees should get a fair share of the discounts.

"You get rid of the tie and the worry is, what are you going to replace it with? It's one of those things - if tenancies go people will look back and say 'it wasn't a bad system, was it?'"

"If you are going to make people free of tie, that will tie them to one brewer because they will get good discounts that way and you will lose choice."

And choice is the thing that Tony believes has changed the most in his time in the job - from his days with the National Association of Licensed House Managers (NALHM) in the 1970s through to the formation of the FLVA in 1992.

"When I came in there were two sessions a day. Now licensees can choose hours to suit the needs of the business.

"It's a job now with this recession because we are seeing a drop in trade, utility price rises.

"We have got to do more to make customers aware of the great things about public houses. We don't sell ourselves enough."

On assignment

This enthusiasm to celebrate pubs rather than dwelling on a little thing like a recession is evident when we visit the Jolly Carter pub in Little Lever, near Bolton.

Typically, Tony is keen that rather than focus solely on him and his departure all day, we get out in the field to see some successful operators.

He initially stepped in to resolve a rent dispute between the licensee Rees Gibbon and his landlord Enterprise Inns and has since worked on ideas to drive trade such as book sales, busker nights, bingo lottery and attracting a local rugby league team. "It's difficult because you don't want to tell someone like Rees, who is a really good licensee and has been in this pub for 30 years, how to do his job but businesses need to be re-evaluated from time to time," says Tony.

Rees, however, seems more than grateful to have an extra pair of eyes to help look at the business and has seen a rise in profits over the last couple of months.

But with 39 pubs a week closing, not everyone can be helped.

"Sometimes I have had to advise people not to join the trade, because they don't know what they are letting themselves in for," says Tony.

"Sometimes you can't help people and the only thing you can do is ease them through the process of getting out. It can be very difficult."

But it is the moments when he can help people that makes it hard for him to leave the post.

"I have got the best job in the world.

I go around helping people," he says.

"When you help someone and you get letters back from them it does give you job satisfaction."

So how will he cope when the new chief executive takes over later this year?

"Somebody coming in can bring a new outlook to the trade," he says.

"But the FLVA has asked me to stay on to do the Parliamentary responses for 12 months while the new person settles in. I really don't want to interfere but if I was wanted I would be available to help anyone who comes in."

Somehow I get the feeling that reports of Tony Payne's retirement have been greatly exaggerated.

The trade on Tony

What the trade thinks of Tony Payne

Dennis Griffiths​ president of the Federation of Licensed Victuallers Associations: "His contribution to both the industry and the FLVA has been immense. He is an absolute genius on things like health and safety, fire assessments and the numerous submissions he has made to Parliament over the years. They say nobody is irreplaceable, but Tony Payne is irreplaceable."

Rees Gibbon​, licensee, Jolly Carter, Bolton: "I have been involved with Tony Payne for the best part of 30 years and he is going to be irreplaceable for the amount of work he has done for licensees. He will be sorely missed and I don't envy anyone who is going to take his place, you can't just replace all of that experience."

Simon Townsend​, chief operating officer, Enterprise Inns: "There can be few people in this industry who have put so much in, over so many years, for so little personal reward and recognition. Tony's tireless support for the pub trade in general, and licensees in particular, has been exemplary. His workrate and productivity are astonishing, and the volumes of information and support materials Tony has produced have helped countless licensees deal with increasing regulation and bureaucracy. His observations and interventions, whilst challenging, are always balanced, objective and fair, and when Tony finally does hang up his briefcase, the licensed trade will definitely be the worse for his absence."