BIG INTERVIEW: How Nick Payne is reigniting the dragon at Brains

Spend a few minutes talking to the managing director of Brains Brewery and it becomes clear why his career has spanned some of the biggest names in the drinks industry, including Diageo, Marston’s, BrewDog, Budweiser Budvar and Welsh gin brand Cygnet.

Yet despite a career that has taken him around the world, Payne finds himself back in Wales and with an obvious love of his: Welsh beer.

Since joining Brains in 2024, the Newport-born rugby enthusiast has been charged with reinvigorating one of Wales’s most iconic brewing brands and he is a leader driven less by titles and status and more by people, culture and the belief local brewers still have a huge role to play in British pubs.

Payne’s route into the drinks trade was not conventional. He was working for Lloyds TSB in south Wales, selling mortgages, loans and insurance, when he realised banking was not where he wanted to spend the rest of his career.

“I just thought, I can’t do this for the rest of my life,” he recalls.

Payne then spent almost 18 months applying for different jobs before spotting an opportunity to work with Guinness.

During an assessment day in Cardiff, then Diageo commercial director Martin Griffiths opened proceedings with a cartwheel before telling candidates only three would be lucky enough to join his team.

Payne remembers immediately thinking: “I don’t care what the job is, I just want to work for this guy.”

Across 17 years at Diageo, he held a multitude of different roles spanning sales, marketing and technical functions, and his constant movement was deliberate.

“Every 18 months there would usually be a reorganisation,” he explains. “You were either promoted, moved sideways or moved out.”

While such instability might sound uncomfortable, Payne believes it forced people to keep learning, adapt quickly and stay ambitious.

Indeed, one lesson was particularly influential. A mentor advised him to leave the business before he became too comfortable.

“You’re 40 next year, you need to leave,” Payne was told.

Rather than seeing it as criticism, he recognised it as honest guidance. The experience reinforced a principle that has followed him ever since: growth rarely comes from staying in the same place.

Treat people well

He explains how a move to Marston’s, which saw him enjoy a spell of close to three years with the company, was successful too.

“I went into a team that wasn’t really performing and, within eight months, we were knocking out the park,” he says.

“A lot of it was just really taking the time to understand the team and develop them. They hadn’t had development conversations and we were having six-week catch-ups and asking simple questions such as ‘what do you enjoy? What don’t you enjoy? How can I help?’.

“I’ve always said, as a people manager, you’re basically a glorified assistant. I’m just there to make their lives as easy as possible and give them the tools to do the job and enjoy it.”

He adds if you treat people well and they’re enjoying their job, they’ll inevitably work hard for you.

One of Payne’s biggest career successes came while managing Diageo’s relationship with JD Wetherspoon (JDW).

He explains Guinness sales within the pub chain were declining by around 5% but instead of arriving armed with presentations and corporate jargon, Payne chose a different approach during his first meeting with a JDW buyer.

“We spent about two hours talking about rugby, family and beer,” he says.

That conversation led to an idea that suited both parties – JDW wanted to be renowned for serving the best-quality beer on the high street and a Guinness quality accreditation programme across the estate followed. The initiative focused on standards, mystery visits, staff engagement and celebrating quality.

Within a year, Guinness sales in JDW had moved from a 5% decline to 8% growth.

He describes his time – just shy of two years – at BrewDog as a “hell of a roller-coaster” and he “thoroughly enjoyed [his] time there”.

“I learned a hell of a lot,” he remembers. “It was 100 miles an hour but I worked with some of the most creative, enthusiastic, hard-working people.”

One lesson stood out for Payne… having come from Diageo, where leaders encouraged calculated risk-taking and viewed failure as part of innovation, he found a very different culture.

“The biggest risk is taking no risk,” he says, reflecting on Diageo’s philosophy.

His experience reinforced the belief that people perform best when trusted, empowered and given freedom to be brave.

When he joined Budweiser Budvar as sales director in late 2019, Budvar remained respected among beer enthusiasts but lacked wider visibility in a fiercely competitive premium lager market.

Then Covid hit and despite the challenges, Payne and the team embarked on a strategy that doubled the size of the business across both the on-trade and off-trade.

Central to that success was simplification. Budvar focused on what made the brand distinctive: exceptional beer quality, the Czech pour and a memorable serve.

The strategy helped overcome long-held British resistance to foam-heavy pours.

The lesson is relevant for all pubs… consumers are looking for authenticity, heritage and theatre.

Having helped launch Cygnet Gin – where he was managing director for two years – alongside Welsh singer Katherine Jenkins, Payne couldn’t resist the lure of chance to lead Brains.

“Brains is entwined in the DNA of Welshness,” he says.

Brains is in a unique position – it is entwined with Cardiff, rugby, community and national identity but Payne recognises it has endured a difficult decade.

“I wasn’t joining if they wanted to manage it down,” he explains. “I wanted to grow it”.

When he was told he was wanted to reignite the brand and “get the fire in the dragon blowing and burning again”, it was a no-brainer, which happens to be the name of the kegged and canned low & no IPA from Brains at 0.5% ABV.

Since arriving, much of his focus has centred on rebuilding confidence internally while modernising the business externally.

The Brains logo was emblazoned on the Wales rugby shirt as a sponsor between 2004 and 2010, and by March 2026, the somewhat unrealistic idea of getting back on those shirts became a reality when the national rugby team faced France at the Principality Stadium.

Its flagship beer, Brains SA 4.2% ABV ale, was available throughout the stadium that day, brand messaging appeared on screens and billboards, and one of Wales’s most recognisable beer brands had re-established its connection with the sport that helped build its reputation.

“It was a proud father moment,” Payne says.

More importantly, it provided a symbolic boost for employees who had remained loyal through some difficult years.

He added: “It gave the business belief that we’re back.”

Payne also observes a concern over the future structure of the brewing industry. At a time when many businesses chase growth, scale and acquisition opportunities, he believes independent and regional operators should think carefully before expanding too quickly.

“We are a small brewery,” he begins. “We employ 30 people in south Wales. People say to me quite often ‘do you want to get back to owning hundreds of pubs and employing thousands of people?’ And I don’t. The niche for this industry at the moment is to be a great brewer.

“If that’s a pub group or a brewer that employs, maybe, two to 40 people that makes a good profit, has a great offering and they know their sweet spot – and for us at Brains – that’s it.

“We’re trying to win back homeland and we’ll make a very small, modest profit, hopefully this year. We’ve got a five-year plan to get us to a great place but we’re not going to fundamentally grow into suddenly employing hundreds of people.”

Cask ale remains at the centre of the company’s long-term strategy and quality, consistency and pride in the serve remain non-negotiable.

As demonstrated with Guinness at Wetherspoon and Budvar’s Czech pour initiative, Payne believes customers reward businesses that focus relentlessly on execution.

For pubs seeking to drive cask sales, the message is simple: excellence matters.

Let talented people thrive

Away from beer, perhaps the most striking aspect of Payne’s approach is his philosophy on leadership.

Unlike many chief executives who talk about authority, targets and strategy, Payne repeatedly returns to concepts such as vulnerability, self-awareness and honesty.

He openly admits making mistakes, encourages colleagues to challenge him and believes leaders perform best when they stop pretending to have every answer.

“The best finance people should challenge finance. The brewers should challenge brewing. The marketers should challenge marketing,” he says.

His role, he argues, is not to be the smartest person in the room but to create an environment where talented people thrive.

Despite overseeing this Welsh institution, Payne is adamant work should never come at the expense of family.

The father of four says he has never missed a sports day, school production or important family event during his career.

For pub operators, there are plenty of takeaways.

Listen more carefully to customers. Empower teams. Focus on quality. Understand what makes your business distinctive. Do not chase growth for growth’s sake.

Perhaps most importantly, Payne argues success often comes from having the courage to take a risk.

After all, this is a man who left banking for beer, walked away from comfortable jobs to seek new challenges and returned home to revive one of Wales’s most iconic brewing names.

Judging by Brains’ early momentum, it is a gamble that is paying off.