Sutcliffe on red tape, fees & payment dates
New licensing minister and past National Pubwatch president Gerry Sutcliffe tells John Harrington that the trade will have to wait on some big decisions affecting pubs
Q Sir Les Elton's report proposing the level of licensing fees was published in January. When are the new fee levels going to be announced and why has it taken so long?
A The report covers a number of complex issues that affect a number of sectors and which require consultation across government. However, we hope to be in a position to give our response to Sir Les's report by the end of the summer. Any proposals we make will then be consulted on - we're not going to alter the fees without a full consultation with the industry. This is a very important issue for the pub trade and local authorities, so it's important to consider it carefully and not rush out a response.
Q What are you going to do to reduce the cost and administrative burden of licensing for pubs?
A While pubs may have incurred up-front costs in moving to the new licensing regime, over time, the Act will reduce bureaucracy. Our simplification plan also sets out areas where we think we can further relieve the regulatory burden without incurring risks to the public - for example, by looking at the application forms and advertising requirements. We are also committed to looking at a new process for "minor variations" that do not impact on the licensing objectives.
In addition, we recently confirmed the timing arrangements for paying new gaming-machine permit fees, which the British Beer & Pub Association (BBPA) claims could save the trade up to £750,000.
Q When is the Department for Culture Media & Sport (DCMS) going to set a single payment date for premises licence fees?
A We are currently assessing the implications of all the panel's detailed conclusions and recommendations. Before making any decisions about changes to the fees regime, including any proposal for a single annual fee date, we will undertake a full public consultation so that licence payers, local authorities and the public can help inform future policy.
Q What action will you take to ensure police forces don't implement blanket glass bans?
A We've already made clear in our Guidance that the Licensing Act does not allow blanket conditions to be imposed on pubs and clubs. Such conditions should only be imposed where it is necessary, taking into account factors such as the location and style of the venue and the activities carried on there. Government will work with the police, the medical profession and the industry on developing proposals to identify and target individual high-risk premises.
We believe the National Alcohol Strategy strikes the right balance in recognising the seriousness of glass-related injuries but emphasises that action needs to be targeted where there is the greatest risk.
Q Gordon Brown has said that a review of the Licensing Act is on the cards. What form will this take, what are the key issues to be investigated, and can the trade expect fresh legislation to follow?
A The Prime Minister was referring to the review which is already happening. As is the case with all new legislation, we are monitoring the Act closely and have been since it came into force. We expect to complete an evaluation of the Act's impact by the end of the year. The evaluation is looking at various aspects of the Act from crime and disorder, and sales of alcohol to children, to cutting red tape and A&E studies.
As [former Culture Secretary] Tessa Jowell said in the foreword to the Guidance issued in July 2004: "We will monitor the impact of the 2003 Act on crime and disorder and the other licensing objectives. If necessary, in the light of these findings, we will introduce further legislation with the consent of Parliament to strengthen or alter any provisions."
Q What is your view of a recent report from London's St Thomas's Hospital that says the new licensing laws have led to a trebling of admissions to A&E wards?
A This is one study from one hospital. It is misleading to say that this is representative for the whole country. More recent and more comprehensive reports from other areas show a different picture - that the new licensing laws have not led to an increase in A&E admissions.
Q Why are maximum stakes and prizes for poker under the Gambling Act set at half the figure for pubs as private members' clubs?
A As with the current legislation, the Gambling Act draws a clear distinction between the respective regulatory regimes for pubs and clubs. Social gaming in clubs has a long and largely unblemished track record, whereas pubs have historically been limited to offering one or two low-risk games, such as dominoes and cribbage.
Following representations received during our consultation, we were able to agree to an increase in the weekly limit for pub poker, and we removed the stakes limit on dominoes and cribbage, both of which have been welcomed by the industry. But the ability of pubs to offer the full range of equal-chance games (including bingo and poker) without having to seek special approval from their licensing authority is a significant change, and needs to be implemented in a managed way. It should also be borne in mind that the stake and prize limits for club poker represent a tightening up of the current arrangements, so the two regulatory regimes are moving closer together.
Q How do you envisage licensees are going to monitor games of chance in pubs to ensure the rules are not broken; for example, that the limits on stakes and prizes are not exceeded?
A We will expect licensees to ensure that those supervising or participating in any gaming know what the rules and limits are. The Gambling Commission has developed a code of practice, which includes a range of practical measures that premises can take to ensure that gaming is properly managed and conducted. If they wish to [host games], they must ensure that the gaming complies with the statutory conditions.
Q Are there any areas that pubs and nightclubs need to address in terms of responsible retailing? For example, avoiding underage sales.
A It goes without saying that licensed premises should not sell alcohol to under-18s. We've given the licensed trade the opportunity to fit their business to suit the needs of their customers. But with that flexibility comes responsibility, and I know that the vast majority of pubs and clubs are acting responsibly.
Q Do you believe that alcohol-related crime is caused more by the off-trade than the on-trade?
A It's not about attributing blame to one section of the licensed trade or another. We all need to work together to address the problems associated with alcohol.
Q The National Alcohol Strategy proposes a review of the link between alcohol price, promotion and harm, focused primarily on the off-trade. When is the review set to start?
A The review will begin shortly and government hopes to publish the results in April 2008.
Q What did you learn about the pub trade from your time as president of National Pubwatch?
AI thoroughly enjoyed my time as Pubwatch president. As I've said, the vast majority of bars and pubs take their responsibilities very seriously and, as I saw through Pubwatch, so many of them work closely with the police to help make their local areas safe and free of drunken louts.
Q Should every area of the country have a pubwatch group and what can the DCMS do to encourage the growth of local pubwatches?
AI think so, yes. We recommend in our Guidance to local authorities that pubwatch schemes should be encouraged and are a good way to prevent alcohol-fuelled crime.
Q Do you agree that the smoking ban is creating problems for pubs and their licensees as a result of more people congregating outside?
A Experience from Ireland, Scotland, New York and New Zealand (all places with comprehensive smoke-free legislation) suggests that going smoke-free can be good for business, including the hospitality and leisure industry, as long as busi
